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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,
Please help before i waste a lot of money.
I rode a Scott Racing hardtail for years around UK trails, to and from work, up the canal down the beach, pretty much everywhere and loved it to peices. After deciding the way forward was a full sus, my second investment was an sworks enduro 2006 - this was to be the bis! i spend 2.5k building it and 18 months or so later i still cant get on with it. I no longer ride to work as it is no fun on the canal (i know it is not primarily built for that, but i just do not want to ride it) i have even considered selling it for 1K and it is still on the original tyres!

When i get out of the saddle and pedal the bike just squats under me, I am whacking the pedals for fun and just do not get the smile at the end of the ride i was expecting. i am even starting to believe I used to be quicker down the trails on my hardtail.

I have riden motocross, enduro motorbikes and am always at the front of the group on the MTB, so i can ride a bit - but setup etc goes over my head, i am begining to wonder is it that? I have a DHX air 5.0 on the back, done the basics like sag setup, rebound by the book, i have even tried 190 psi (i weigh 13.5 - 14 stone so it should be too much?) to stiffen it up. I have just changed the shuttle to the high BB one but i dont know how much diff this will make, will try it out tomorrow.

any suggestions or experience will help before i tempt divorce and start looking for something 100mm or even a new hardtail
 

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Fat Skis/Fat Tires
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watsy said:
When i get out of the saddle and pedal the bike just squats under me, I am whacking the pedals for fun and just do not get the smile at the end of the ride i was expecting. i am even starting to believe I used to be quicker down the trails on my hardtail.

any suggestions or experience will help before i tempt divorce and start looking for something 100mm or even a new hardtail
Take a spin on an Enduro SL, suspension set at the proper sag, and tires around 40psi.

The DHX 5 is notorious for squat.
 

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Nice bike!

Mate, had a look at the bike on your profile photos and it looks sweet!!! Nice build buddy and I honestly don't understand why you don't like it!!!! If you are looking to sell it for $1K, let me know!!! haha. Just kidding.:D

Perhaps you should use the pro pedal option when riding on the canal??? I honestly don't know how to help so I can only wish you good luck!!! Nice bike anyway!:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys - especially darkest fatigue for telling me what bike i have:thumbsup:

I thought there would be loads of technical advice on this forum, any way thanks to those who responded. Today i changed the shuttle to the high bb and added 25psi to the shock, added much more rebound, but still not sure of the bottom out reservoir and how to set it properly. The changes have made it much better already:) Will go to the LBS who have a really good mechanic and see if he can help.

cheers
 

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Bike Breaker.
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Hey watsy, thought I'd answer here instead of on mtbwales.
Same bike I had (06 S-works) found my riding at one point changed to more XC stuff, then I changed to Crossmax XL wheels, then tubeless, and specifically nobby nics and racing ralphs and speeded up things no end. Though my build was XT and CF bar, Thomson and a Vanilla 36 fork
It was a super fast bike downhill and across. Once you set up the suspension then it will be great. But still I wanted more, as I needed to go for a few hours more and then sold it to get an Enduro SL, (seduced by something new) which is as fast and takes me further into Brechfa Natural where ups are steady and the downs are smooth and rocky.
There's no need to sell it I'd say, we all have those moments when were not at 100% and we tend to look at the bike first. I need to get fitter, but so far the enduro is aimed at the fun aspect. You will get that fun aspect with the enduro on Brechfa's DH bits, but steady on the climbs.
I might be around Brechfa tomorrow so I'll keep an eye out.
 

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Hey Watsy, I have a 2005 S-Works too. It is a sweet frame, but i think almost everyone has been disappointing with the DHXair on it. I was reading the BikeMonkey forums last night and like here, there are long threads of people who have switched to coil shocks and they say it completely changes the feeling of the bike and brings it to life.

I would suggest two things though. I think you need more pressure in the main chamber, you are quite heavy (88.9kg or 195lb, I'm not saying you are fat, but heavy). I assume you have a shock pump. The max pressure is 300psi!

Here is some good advice and tips that I found from the DHXair reviews page. This was written by Tyson* (whoever that is)

"I find it odd that this shock gets thrashed in the ratings so much. People keep talking about the air pressures they use... does anyone read the manual? I love the shock and if you use is right it will last (6 m for me and counting).

Main chamber 50-300 PSI (start with 200)
Boost chamber 125-200 PSI (start with 125)

Basic Tune:
1)Set sag (25% of travel). Add/subtract 10-15 pds increments to the main chamber.
2)Set bottom out adjustment. This effectively changes the size of the boost chamber. Larger chamber= less spring rate increase and more likely to bottom out. Smaller chamber= rapid spring rate increase and more bottom out resistance.
3)Set Boost chamber pressure. Here is where tuning comes in... More pressure here= more mid stroke pre-load.

Set rebound to taste.

Tips:
Too much sag: increase main chamber pressure

Blows through mid travel too quickly: Increase the boost chamber pressure. However this will also increase the terminal spring rate meaning that you will have to release the bottom out adjustment (i.e. make the boost chamber larger) to maintain the same bottom out resistance. I recommend adjusting the boost chamber size before adjusting the pressure because changing volume also changes pressure (remember high school physics? PV=nRT). Fox also suggests reducing the chamber pressure to 125psi when adjusting the size.

Bottom out? Increase boost chamber pressure if you want more resistance throughout the shocks travel or decrease the chamber size if you just want increased resistance at the terminal shock travel.

Want more propedal input: I feel I get more input when the boost chamber is more pressurized.

Bottom line: Setting sag on this is easy. Optimizing spring rate through its travel... not so much. It requires adjusting the a)pressure in the boost chamber and b)size of the boost chamber. If you can grasp how this 2 factors interact you can have almost any spring rate you want.

I'm 200pds and the Santa Cruz I ride loves to blow through the mid shock travel because of the suspension design characteristics. I run the main chamber with 240 PSI and the Boost chamber with 160 PSI but the bottom out adjustment rather loose. This gives me 25% sag, good mid spring travel and I'm NOT bottoming out. "
 

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Now with More Wood
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e-bo-b said:
Please bear with us, as we are minimally staffed through the holiday season. All of our smart people are on vacation.
LOL. :D Erik, that was the answer of the day!

watsy, DF's answer may seem like stating the obvious, but in fact he hits the nail on the head - your bike was primarily made for ripping it up on the downs. That inherently makes it a much worse bike to pedal around than a Scott Racing Hardtail. Never mind the fact that you have the S-Works version....that Enduro is never going to be nimble, and compared to your old bike it probably feels like a tank. So unless you are going to use it primarily for what it was intended for, you would probably be much better off getting yourself a Stumpjumper or similar.

Hacing said that, following the Don's advise should get you partway there though. With an airshock you pretty much have the freedom to run any spring rate you want, and with the 5.0's adjustability with regards to propedal and bottom out tuning, you should be able to get it nice and stiff (which is what you will be needing for your kind of riding). And the high BB you are trying might also help....get's more into a "XC" type position, probably better for pedalling (but less comfortable on the way down, where you want to be low and back).
 

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Watsy give Mojo a call it it sounds like the compression damping is to blame. Standard compression damping is apparently set up for riders lighter than you (and me). I had a dhx air on my 05 and it was a bit crap tbh. Recently changed to a Vanilla and its much better but sat quite low in the travel at first. I got TF to fiddle with it and mess around with the compression circuit and now its ace! TF wont touch dhx airs but mojo should be able to do what you want.

Or have a search on ebay for a DHX coil going cheep and send it off to TF for PUSHing. Or if you have £320 to spend just buy a new DHX coil from TF they will set it up to your weight riding style and frame design before you get it.

It sounds to me like its the rear shock that your not happy with not the bike in general.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Tried it yesterday at brechfa with 200psi in the main chamber, high bb and much more rebound (but not enough to throw me out of the saddle) - it already feels much better especially on the climbs and i didnt whack the pedals once! but that said if i can set the shock up properly with the help of the guys at skyline or mojo and the tips TheDon from then i am onto a winner

I agree with what everyone says - the bike must be very good, but its just different from a head down arse up hardtail, but i am sure i can set the rear shock to be much less like a sponge. so thanks for those tips - i will spend some time on it.

Sorry for the comment DF i guess i am just gutted at not enjoying the bike when i know i should be, and was hoping for advice on setup. Friends?LOL:cool:

So at the moment it feels better - thanks for the advice, I am sure i can get it riding like i want with correct setup of the DHX air. Will keep you posted

PS When i was checking TF tuned to see about getting it PUSHed i noticed they do not do the DHX air as I_Ache says - any particular reason?

Thanks all:)
 

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I asked about getting mine done but they said they dont touch them because they are too problematic. They wont even sell a new one.

Try sticking a little more air in the boost valve my understanding is by doing this the pro pedal will be firmer and hold the shock up a bit.
 

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I think the reason they don't do a PUSH type service for it is because you can pretty much adjust you would need to. I am probably wrong about that though.

I actually have been having issues with mine. I had been running it at 160psi and thought that because my sag measurements were correct that was good for me, but I had the same problem of the rear end feeling like a sponge (I weigh 70kg or about 11stone). I actually bought a new coil shock (Roco TST-r) for about 150 quid on ebay (new, including shipping from Canada to Japan). I haven't fitted it yet as I need to swap over the mounting hardware and I have run out of money without digging into my savings for the month! grr..

So I actually today tried following the advice I found and gave you today about the higher pressure and it does feel more lively. I might not need to fit the coil any more (can sell it for more than I paid for it in Japan as well!, stuff here is expensive!).

Hopefully this weekend I will get out to the mountains to put it through it's paces!

Glad you are feeling better about the bike. Selling it cheap would be a shame. You have a pike on the front and a pretty light build. I am sure it must be able to ride really well. Do you have a U-Turn? or adjustable travel? I just fitted a Lyrik U-Turn and so far it is great, I can adjust the geometry to make it more forward if I want and then raise it up and hit the DH!
 

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I_Ache said:
I asked about getting mine done but they said they dont touch them because they are too problematic. They wont even sell a new one.

Try sticking a little more air in the boost valve my understanding is by doing this the pro pedal will be firmer and hold the shock up a bit.
I believe this is wrong on two fronts,

1st, the boost valve pressure doesn't affect the propedel feel, it adjusts the mid-stroke and bottom out projection.

2nd, Enduro specific DHXair's don't have a boost chamber adjustment valve! grrrrr!!! What did Specialized think when they made that decision??? I am sure the ability to increase the Boost pressure would reduce many of the complaints Enduro riders have!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Cheers mate - will try it later and give it a bash around the Whites in Afan Saturday;)
It will also give me a chance to speak to the guys in skyline.
 

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Dont mean to sound like I think I know it all because I really dont.

However. The do PUSH the DHX coil and that has the same (apart from the air spring) adjustability so it must be something else.

Adjustable travel on a Enduro is a really great thing to have. Dropping the forks makes uphills so much easier.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yeah, i went for the u turn and the travel adjustement is great for dropping the front on climbs, as long as i remember to reset it in my haste when i see a downhill section lol.
 
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