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Always Learning
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civil said:
Both, the tapered end is 4mm and the flared end is 5mm. The inner plastic liner is 2mm.

That is measured with a tape measure as my digi calipers are out on loan......Hope that helps.
Any "guesstimates" on what the iLink housing from lever to front disc brake (yes, a mechanical disc brake) would weigh? My current Jagwire "faux braided" housing and the cable to the front brake weighs 54-56 grams (depending on which bike). I wonder if the iLink would save much weight - if at all over that.

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BruceBrown said:
Any "guesstimates" on what the iLink housing from lever to front disc brake (yes, a mechanical disc brake) would weigh? My current Jagwire "faux braided" housing and the cable to the front brake weighs 54-56 grams (depending on which bike). I wonder if the iLink would save much weight - if at all over that.

BB
100cm outer i-Link housing weighs ca. 25,5g
100cm i-Link liner weighs 1,5g

typical brake housing weighs about 58g/100cm
 

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BruceBrown said:
Thanks, Nino.

So, it looks like about 1/2 the weight. That's more weight savings than I thought it would be.

BB
That's what i always say and that's why the i-links are a great choice when you need new cables. On top of their low weight they also offer superior slickness which results in less drag----->more power and better control(modulation) especially on V-Brakes.

But on shiftcables the savings are less. Some regular Shimano/Jagwire shift-housing weighs ca. 35g / 100cm
 

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BruceBrown said:
Thanks, Nino.

So, it looks like about 1/2 the weight. That's more weight savings than I thought it would be.

BB
Yeah, the weight is pretty good, quite happy with the look too.

Although I'm having to do a little guess work with the exterior housing lengths. The instructions say to use the same length (compressed of course) as the original cables, but I found that that led to some floppy cables. So I'm experimenting with some shorter lengths.

Does anyone have some good rules of thumb when doing this with the ilinks?
 

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Bruce, I've been using the I-Links with Avid Ultimate levers and BB7 calipers and G2 rotors. They work sweet. I do have a set of the Alligator 93 gram rotors on order and some titanium rotor bolts to lighten it up a bit.
 

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Juanmoretime said:
Bruce, I've been using the I-Links with Avid Ultimate levers and BB7 calipers and G2 rotors. They work sweet. I do have a set of the Alligator 93 gram rotors on order and some titanium rotor bolts to lighten it up a bit.
I'd love to see pictures of your setup if you have them available.

That sounds like what I am trying to do. Tune the Avid mechanical disc brake set up to a competitive weight with a hydro disc brake system. Ti bolts. Light rotors. Light levers. Light housing. Not cheap, but I'm one of the odd ducks that is quite happy with the performance of my mechanical brakes and see how it can be done. They haven't failed me since 2002, so I figure dressing them up a bit may be worth the hassle. I have 2 sets of the type N caliper which weighs 138g compared to the BB7 later version which weighs 155g.

Looking at real weights for a front brake [weight includes lever, lever bolts, hose, fluid, caliper, pads but no adapter, no caliper bolts, no rotor, no rotor bolts]:

Avid Juicy 7: 266g
Avid Elixir R: 246g
Avid Elixir CR: 250g
Avid Juicy Ultimate: 219g (with trimmed housing length)
Avid BB7 (type N)/Avid Ultimate levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 267g
Avid BB7 (type N)/Paul Love levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 251g
Avid BB7 (type N)/Extralite Ultra levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 225g
Avid BB7 (type N)/KCNC levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 214g

Those four versions of the BB7 are all "in the ballpark" weight wise. Rotors, adapters and bolts, caliper bolts, rotor bolts will be about the same running IS mounts no matter what the brake and my given choice of rotors currently are the Alligator Windcutters with sintered pads. I had a great season on them in 2008, so I see no reason to alter that for 2009 outside of trying a different rotor size on the rear.

Back to the tuning of housing/cables....

If I was going to run full length iLink housing to the rear Avid BB7 caliper - is there enough of the housing and liner in an iLink kit to do this - or would I need to buy a 2nd kit (or extension kit) to do it? On my XL frame, it looks like that is about a 170mm or so length.

I've got a pair of the Avid Ultimate levers which I plan on using for the build with my Avid mechanical disc brakes. I was just looking at the PowerCordz for cables. Holy expensive cable!!! $36.95 for a pair of derailleur cables and $46.95 for the brake cables.

Hmmmm.....not sure about that. The claim is running the PowerCordz for brakes and shifting will cut 45-60g from your machine versus steel cables. Surely, there must be some solutions that are between plain Jane steel cables and the PowerCordz cables in price and weight. XTR? Jagwire Teflon? etc...?

Add that to the cost of iLink housing and this "upgrade" is one upgrade that is going to painful expense wise. Above, I have figured out the potential weight savings for the front brake to make it competitive with the hydraulics.

Back to the iLinks nuts and bolts. What do you do with an iLinks setup between cable stops for derailleur runs? Do you run some sort of a housing liner (Jagwire or other)? Or do you just run bare cable with donuts?

There was a pretty cool article and instructions in this month's MBA on how to set up your derailleur for full length housing and housing liner to improve your shifting. The guy used electricians shrink wrap between the section joints to seal it all in and make a fail proof system. Of course, I'll be running full length housing to the Avid BB7 disc brakes like I always have, but I have never thought of doing it with my derailleurs to keep all the gunk and grime out to improve shifting. Again, I would assume that the iLink and some housing liner could be used together to accomplish this.

BB
 

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nino said:
Hi,
it seems you completely missed my i-link posts over the last 1-2 years or so, right?.
I guess I missed it. I need to do a search and start reading up on the iLinks.

nino said:
I-Links come with a full lenght inner liner. Thus the wires are protected and the whole system is sealed. that's why the i-links keep their slick action..
Perfect.

nino said:
DON'T believe people that tell you 50g savings can be achieved using Powercordz! And another problem is that the Powercordz for brakes DON'T FIT into the i-Link liner because they are thicker. They simply don't fit. The Powercordz do only fit on the shiftcables. So forget it on the brakes! I also found Powercordz do have more drag than regular steel wires so i never use them just because of this. Cabes do have to be as slick as possible especially on the brakes to make for best modulation and more brakepower.
That solves that if I go with the iLinks. I've used the Jagwire Teflon coated cables as well as just plain old steel cables with my Avid mechanical brakes.

nino said:
If the i-links fit your bike depends on the lenght you need. You will have to actually measure the needed lenghts. Usually they come with just 150-180cm lenght housings per set. Usually with full lenght housing you need more that just 1 set.
That's what I need to know. It looks like one brake kit would be needed just for the full length run to the rear brake.

nino said:
So you don't have to buy full sets if a set is not enough. You can get elongation kits of the outer aluminium housings as well as seperate inner liners in either transparent or black colour.
Thanks. I appreciate the help getting me up to speed. I like the black liner option since I'm building up a stealth black bike.:thumbsup:

I'll do a little searching to see what you've posted about the iLinks over the past 2 years. It's kind of the last item I am down to selecting for my new bike, so all my searching and reading have had to do with other components thus far.

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BruceBrown said:
I'd love to see pictures of your setup if you have them available.

That sounds like what I am trying to do. Tune the Avid mechanical disc brake set up to a competitive weight with a hydro disc brake system. Ti bolts. Light rotors. Light levers. Light housing. Not cheap, but I'm one of the odd ducks that is quite happy with the performance of my mechanical brakes and see how it can be done. They haven't failed me since 2002, so I figure dressing them up a bit may be worth the hassle. I have 2 sets of the type N caliper which weighs 138g compared to the BB7 later version which weighs 155g.

Looking at real weights for a front brake [weight includes lever, lever bolts, hose, fluid, caliper, pads but no adapter, no caliper bolts, no rotor, no rotor bolts]:

Avid Juicy 7: 266g
Avid Elixir R: 246g
Avid Elixir CR: 250g
Avid Juicy Ultimate: 219g (with trimmed housing length)
Avid BB7 (type N)/Avid Ultimate levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 267g
Avid BB7 (type N)/Paul Love levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 251g
Avid BB7 (type N)/Extralite Ultra levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 225g
Avid BB7 (type N)/KCNC levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 214g

Those four versions of the BB7 are all "in the ballpark" weight wise. Rotors, adapters and bolts, caliper bolts, rotor bolts will be about the same running IS mounts no matter what the brake and my given choice of rotors currently are the Alligator Windcutters with sintered pads. I had a great season on them in 2008, so I see no reason to alter that for 2009 outside of trying a different rotor size on the rear.

Back to the tuning of housing/cables....

If I was going to run full length iLink housing to the rear Avid BB7 caliper - is there enough of the housing and liner in an iLink kit to do this - or would I need to buy a 2nd kit (or extension kit) to do it? On my XL frame, it looks like that is about a 170mm or so length.

I've got a pair of the Avid Ultimate levers which I plan on using for the build with my Avid mechanical disc brakes. I was just looking at the PowerCordz for cables. Holy expensive cable!!! $36.95 for a pair of derailleur cables and $46.95 for the brake cables.

Hmmmm.....not sure about that. The claim is running the PowerCordz for brakes and shifting will cut 45-60g from your machine versus steel cables. Surely, there must be some solutions that are between plain Jane steel cables and the PowerCordz cables in price and weight. XTR? Jagwire Teflon? etc...?

Add that to the cost of iLink housing and this "upgrade" is one upgrade that is going to painful expense wise. Above, I have figured out the potential weight savings for the front brake to make it competitive with the hydraulics.

Back to the iLinks nuts and bolts. What do you do with an iLinks setup between cable stops for derailleur runs? Do you run some sort of a housing liner (Jagwire or other)? Or do you just run bare cable with donuts?

There was a pretty cool article and instructions in this month's MBA on how to set up your derailleur for full length housing and housing liner to improve your shifting. The guy used electricians shrink wrap between the section joints to seal it all in and make a fail proof system. Of course, I'll be running full length housing to the Avid BB7 disc brakes like I always have, but I have never thought of doing it with my derailleurs to keep all the gunk and grime out to improve shifting. Again, I would assume that the iLink and some housing liner could be used together to accomplish this.

BB
Bruce, I've used the I-Links on all my bikes including my TT bike. The I-Links had enough in the kits for brake and shift t run just about any configuration. On my geared MTB and my single speed 29er I ran full length brake cables. On the geared MTB I ran the housing for the gears only to the cable stops but ran full length liner to keep the gunk out. You can use Power Cordz on both the shift and brake but have to use the Power Cordz liner and it is a very snug fit. The think about Power Cordz is have to measure twice and be right because they are not forgiving of mistakes. When you bugger one up you usually have to replace it. The teflon coated cables that come with the I-Link kets work very well and I find them great to use. I think I would rather have the slight weight penalty and have great working cables.

I can post some pictures of my set up later over the weekend.

Here is some color spacer porn for now. It was a Christmas present to my 29er to help accent my Boone cog and my Hope Pro II rear hub.





 

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Liners....

Juanmoretime said:
....You can use Power Cordz on both the shift and brake but have to use the Power Cordz liner and it is a very snug fit.
DON'T use other liners!
As shown above i-Link liner weighs next to nothing. Other liners weigh MUCH more and will be heavier in the end! Nokon Liner for example weighs 8,5g/100cm....You install lighter Powercordz wires but heavy liner...no good.

As others stated as well the regular slick-wires that come with the i-Links make for long lasting and superslick action.
 

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nino said:
Hi,

DON'T believe people that tell you 50g savings can be achieved using Powercordz! And another problem is that the Powercordz for brakes DON'T FIT into the i-Link liner because they are thicker. They simply don't fit. The Powercordz do only fit on the shiftcables. So forget it on the brakes! I also found Powercordz do have more drag than regular steel wires so i never use them just because of this. Cabes do have to be as slick as possible especially on the brakes to make for best modulation and more brakepower.
Nino...be careful with those statements. First, the thing with PowerCordz is that their shift housing is not that light. But the Cable does have some merits. They are the lightest cable...Period!!! They never rust, they never stretch and they don't need constant maintenance. On the Brake housing it's lighter than other plus you get the benefits of the cables.

Now...using PowerCordz with i-links....Some people want to run them without purchasing the Nokon (that also works with I-Links) liner sold by PowerCordz. This liner is designed for the larger diameter cable. The included liner with the i-Links may allow you to install the PC but you will have friction, specially on longer cable runs like Scott bikes. I have i-Links + PowerCordz on my road and MTB and so far the shift and brake performance is excellent with zero friction.

And as a last point.. by the end of January the PowerCordz 1.2 mm cable should be available and any issues with using a larger diameter cable should be put to rest.
 

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jmartpr said:
Nino...be careful with those statements. First, the thing with PowerCordz is that their shift housing is not that light. But the Cable does have some merits. They are the lightest cable...Period!!! They never rust, they never stretch and they don't need constant maintenance. On the Brake housing it's lighter than other plus you get the benefits of the cables.

Now...using PowerCordz with i-links....Some people want to run them without purchasing the Nokon (that also works with I-Links) liner sold by PowerCordz. This liner is designed for the larger diameter cable. The included liner with the i-Links may allow you to install the PC but you will have friction, specially on longer cable runs like Scott bikes. I have i-Links + PowerCordz on my road and MTB and so far the shift and brake performance is excellent with zero friction.

And as a last point.. by the end of January the PowerCordz 1.2 mm cable should be available and any issues with using a larger diameter cable should be put to rest.
Powercordz ARE indeed light, but they don't save 50g. That's all i said above.

Installing Powercordz with other liners is ridiculous as other liners are much heavier. Just as i wrote above you might end up heavier than using the standard i-Link parts.
 

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nino said:
Powercordz ARE indeed light, but they don't save 50g. That's all i said above.

Installing Powercordz with other liners is ridiculous as other liners are much heavier. Just as i wrote above you might end up heavier than using the standard i-Link parts.
Agreed, maybe on a road bike with PC on brakes and shift you could save that. Of course it also depends from what you are upgrading from....but the PowerCordz Liner (light blue 2008)...not other liner...weights basically the same as the liner supplied by Alligator with the i-links. anyway, once the 1.2mm are available you will be able to use any liner or housing with the cable, which will be the lightest you can get.
 

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jmartpr said:
Agreed, maybe on a road bike with PC on brakes and shift you could save that. Of course it also depends from what you are upgrading from....but the PowerCordz Liner (light blue 2008)...not other liner...weights basically the same as the liner supplied by Alligator with the i-links. anyway, once the 1.2mm are available you will be able to use any liner or housing with the cable, which will be the lightest you can get.
That new 1.2mm PowerCordz cable is derailleur specific, right? So one is still stuck with the issue of PowerCordz brake cables and iLink housing without some modifications if I am following along correctly.

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Juanmoretime said:
Bruce, I've used the I-Links on all my bikes including my TT bike. The I-Links had enough in the kits for brake and shift t run just about any configuration. On my geared MTB and my single speed 29er I ran full length brake cables. On the geared MTB I ran the housing for the gears only to the cable stops but ran full length liner to keep the gunk out. You can use Power Cordz on both the shift and brake but have to use the Power Cordz liner and it is a very snug fit. The think about Power Cordz is have to measure twice and be right because they are not forgiving of mistakes. When you bugger one up you usually have to replace it. The teflon coated cables that come with the I-Link kets work very well and I find them great to use. I think I would rather have the slight weight penalty and have great working cables.

I can post some pictures of my set up later over the weekend.
I would greatly appreciate the pictures - thanks.:thumbsup:

I was just reading the installation of the PowerCordz directions involving having to tie a knot and using the little Windsor brake clasp. I can hardly tie my shoe.:madman:

Your statement about the provided cables with the iLink kit working well and not that much of a weight penalty (not to mention cost or the risk of damaging the thing due to a mistake) makes sense to me.

I need to go out in the garage and weigh my entire housing and cable run (Jagwire) which I am looking to replace to see if it is all worth it weight wise and money wise.

Okay, I just did that.

Front housing is 75cm in length
Front housing with one frame protector is 36g
Front cable weight is 12g
2 Jagwire POPs is 4g
Total housing weight, including steel cable and all ferrules, frame protectors and doo-dads is 52g

Rear housing is 137cm
Rear housing with 2 frame protectors is 70g
Rear cable weight is 18g
1 Jagwire POP and 1 Avid rubber doodad is 4g
Total housing weight, including steel cable and all ferrules, frame protectors and doo-dads is 92g

212cm of universal 5mm brake housing with cable/ferrules/frame protectors = 144g

So it looks like lighter cables could be had compared to my standard QBP steel brake cables which total 30g.

106g for front and rear 5mm Jagwire housing could be shaved down using the iLink housing and liner. What's that work out to for my current Jagwire housing? 50g per meter?

But how much weight savings are we talking here for the final product? It looks like using full run iLink housing and liner at 27g per meter would make my required length of 212cm total 57.24g which = a savings of 48.76g for the brake housing. I would have to assume the same ratio of weight savings for the derailleur housing I have been using (it's the same Jagwire universal brake/derailleur 5mm housing). Looks like housing alone could by going from what I have been using to the iLink may save me 75 - 100g depending on full length/cable stops/housing liner options and choices. Cables probably aren't worth messing with since the entire 4 cables - at least in terms of PowerCordz - are so expensive and the weight savings may only be in the 20 - 40g range by going to PowerCordz (not to mention the problem with the liner size and by doing the swap most of that gain would be lost).

My new JET 9 frame has what I would call some "interesting and challenging" cable stops/routing compared to what my Sugar 293 has. Everything is on the downtube instead of the top tube and there are some really tight bends. Even more challenging is that I prefer to use the right lever for the front brake and the left lever for the rear brake which puts an extra sharp bend on the rear brake housing/cable.

Regardless, the iLink kits are marked down 44% at the moment which has me perked up and trying to learn as much as possible while the sale lasts. I guess using the full length housing liner gives one the same smooth braking like the full standard housing I have been using. The iLink brake kit says it comes with:

Liner: 100cm x 1 pc, 180cm x 1 pc
Housing: 150cm

If I wanted to run full housing, I would need to get some sort of an extension kit in the length range of 62cm. It looks there is plenty of liner, so running the cable stops and using a the full run of liner would work (and be lighter, right?).

BB
 

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nino said:
DON'T use other liners!
As shown above i-Link liner weighs next to nothing. Other liners weigh MUCH more and will be heavier in the end! Nokon Liner for example weighs 8,5g/100cm....You install lighter Powercordz wires but heavy liner...no good.

As others stated as well the regular slick-wires that come with the i-Links make for long lasting and superslick action.
Do all iLink "kits" come with the transparent housing liner? I'm interested in the black housing liner only.

BB
 
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