[mack_turtle]

before I spent quite a lot of money on a new frame, I'd like to know with some confidence that I'll not regret the purchase. that's happened to me before and I don't want to repeat that experience. I'm curious how some of you chose the bike you now ride and enjoy if you did not have the luxury of a test ride, considering the following suggestions that usually come up:

• "test ride a lot of bikes." in a perfect world, we'd be able to test ride everything. I've checked, and no one demos any variety of steel hardtails or rigid bikes, at least not near me. I can demo some e-bikes and carbon fiber FS trail bikes, but not any sort of variety of modern hardtail. that's not very useful.
• "get a bike fit." been there, done that. sitting and pedaling on a stationary bike with cameras, lasers, motion-capture gizmos, and someone eyeballing your knees can provide a great result for sitting and pedaling in a straight line. my whole experience of mountain biking is doing everything to avoid sitting and pedaling in a straight line, so I don't see how a bike fitting helps me understand how a bike behaves when the trail points up, down, around a corner, over a jump, and floating over rock gardens.
• "get a custom frame." that's generally outside of what I can justify paying, although the potential that I might ride that bike for many years instead of buying something new every few years might be a worthwhile investment. then again, I have to REALLY trust that the designer understands my terrain, riding style, body proportions and limitations.
• "study the frame geometry to find out what you like." I called a textbook case of Dunning-Kruger Effect (ignorance) on myself when I recently realized how far I am from understanding bike fit and handling. This is after years of reading on the subject and feeling quite confident that I had some answers. I realized that I don't know what I want. every manufacturer and every rider has a different understanding of what works best, so I just feel adrift at this point when I look at numbers or read reviews of bikes.

 

[mike_kelly]

I think the problem is that bike geometry is changing constantly. It has plagued me as well. My only reference point now is an old bike that fit well that I can measure and compare that way. All the old measurement systems are obsolete these days. Good Luck

 

[pushinpixels]

I purchased sight unseen, Specialized Enduro without a test ride in 2020. I felt confident enough to do this because I knew exactly what I wanted to achieve from my next bike. I figured out over the years the qualities most important to me. Pedal amazingly well and crush DH. This took away the anxiety of placing a big deposit down and waiting a few months. Good luck!

 

[mack_turtle]

I figured out over the years the qualities most important to me.

how did you achieve this? over the past ten years, I've owned ten different hardtail/ rigid singlespeed bikes. I still have no idea what I want.

 

[LMN]

Ask the opinion of riders you trust.

I don’t trust anybody who I haven’t seen ride a bike. I need to know that someone is competent in the riding style that I do before I will trust anything they say about a bike.

At the same time bikes are pretty good nowadays. If you buy a bike intended for the trails that you ride then you are probably getting a good bike. The problems arrive when you try and make a bike work on trails it wasn’t designed for.

 

[pushinpixels]

Figuring out those qualities required me to take a step back and realize where my riding is weakest. My goal has always been to keep up - sometimes surpass my riding buddies on a 3+ hour ride. All my friends moved to Enduro bikes over the last few years. I knew uphills on my trailbike were fine, but DH I was getting dropped way off into the distance. I'm always a bit apprehensive about technical DH and my Enduro bike has helped me to overcome most of it. I feel faster and more confident riding with my friends now. I'm at or near top of the pack most days.

 

[Bacon Fat]

I look at the geo and see if the bike will fit, after that I just take a leap of faith. If the bike doesn't work for me then I sell it. Other riders opinions are great if they look for the same things you do in a bikes performance. Two very good riders could want different setups and feel.

Mack turtle, After all those bikes, you must know what you don't like and what works for you. What kind of riding do you enjoy? What do you like when you are out on the trail? Sometimes you have to step out of what is comfortable, be willing to make a mistake when trying something new.

For a rigid bike, I usually like a short wheelbase that I can throw around twisty narrow trails. The frame I just ordered has a WB 50mm+ longer than what I usually ride. It is the length of my FS bike. I am hoping that it will provide a little more stability over my other rigid, but still turns well. Time will tell if it works for me.

 

[Harold]

yeah, in an ideal world you'd be able to try everything. obviously doesn't work that way IRL, and especially when a lot of things are unavailable and you have to order whatever it is you want and wait for it to be built.

one thing I've found that has helped over the years is to at least try a few things to get some reference points. don't look at any geo numbers until you have a feeling for a given bike. try to use those numbers to help you anticipate what an unridden bike with known geo numbers will feel like. it's not precise, but it has been helpful to me when I couldn't test ride the bike in question.

 

[mack_turtle]

good questions, all.

what I like is riding technical, lumpy, bumpy uphills. I don't care if the bike is good for fast, long downhills and jumping because I don't do any of that. while watching videos of Brandon Semeuk or whoever is fun, Chris Akrigg and Jeff Lenosky inspire me the most. ledges and trials-y stuff is fun and I am kind of good at it. when I see newer bikes with long rear-centers and low BBs, I get the feeling that I would hate those because they would be an even bigger chore to bunnyhop and maneuver over rock-crawling terrain than what I have now. it seems like a short-ish wheelbase, short back end, and high BB accommodate that type of riding best. that's why I have a Karate Monkey.

where my riding seems to fall short is any sort of flat turn (I have to brake a lot or risk the front tire washing out), and bigger drops. I've tried every cornering technique in the book, different tires, and moved my handlebar around. that front tire just wants to slide out from under me on any surface after years of trying to improve my technique. I am, of course, open to gaining skills, but I don't want a bike that fights me for control the whole way. my experience and advice I read about bike fit are often contradictory.

I have to slide my saddle forward on the rails quite a bit to get "on top of" the cranks due to the slacked out seat tube on this bike, so I also have to run a "long" 70mm stem so the seated pedaling position is not so cramped that it hurts my back.

Any number of frames on the market have some of those features, but numbers on paper don't tell me subjective ride characteristics. other riders' reviews contradict one another as well.

 

[Bacon Fat]

What about the bike that Jeff rides

ReDikyelous - REEB Cycles

FRAME HIGHLIGHTS New Updated geometry and sizing for 2021! REEB designed custom steel tubeset for optimal lightweight, strength and stiffness Size specific chainstays - 410mm on small and medium, 420mm large and xl In-house designed and machined chainstay yoke for maximum tire clearance and...

reebcycles.com

The seat angle on the KM is very relaxed, this would be more upright. The reeb will have a longer front center and slacker head angle.

I find that when the front tire washes out around corners, its because I am turning the bars instead of leaning the bike

 

[Monty219]

good questions, all.

what I like is riding technical, lumpy, bumpy uphills. I don't care if the bike is good for fast, long downhills and jumping because I don't do any of that. while watching videos of Brandon Semeuk or whoever is fun, Chris Akrigg and Jeff Lenosky inspire me the most. ledges and trials-y stuff is fun and I am kind of good at it. when I see newer bikes with long rear-centers and low BBs, I get the feeling that I would hate those because they would be an even bigger chore to bunnyhop and maneuver over rock-crawling terrain than what I have now. it seems like a short-ish wheelbase, short back end, and high BB accommodate that type of riding best. that's why I have a Karate Monkey.

where my riding seems to fall short is any sort of flat turn (I have to brake a lot or risk the front tire washing out), and bigger drops. I've tried every cornering technique in the book, different tires, and moved my handlebar around. that front tire just wants to slide out from under me on any surface after years of trying to improve my technique. I am, of course, open to gaining skills, but I don't want a bike that fights me for control the whole way. my experience and advice I read about bike fit are often contradictory.

I have to slide my saddle forward on the rails quite a bit to get "on top of" the cranks due to the slacked out seat tube on this bike, so I also have to run a "long" 70mm stem so the seated pedaling position is not so cramped that it hurts my back.

Any number of frames on the market have some of those features, but numbers on paper don't tell me subjective ride characteristics. other riders' reviews contradict one another as well.

This describes the style of next bike i want to add to the quiver. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) it is probably a few years out. Right now Salsa Timberjack, Esker Hayduke and Honzo ST are on the list. So is Reeb Dykulus2 but its more than twice the cost of the others. I’ll just keep scanning threads and poking questions about which bike is best for a trialsy, trail ridable, single/multi speed convertible frame.

 

[mack_turtle]

Reeb would be high on my list, but I can't understand why it's so expensive without the sliding dropouts. that's a $2,500+ steel frame. I can get a Chumba Sendero (if I could afford it) for nearly $1,000 less, and those are made five miles from my house.

 

[Monty219]

Reeb would be high on my list, but I can't understand why it's so expensive without the sliding dropouts. that's a $2,500+ steel frame. I can get a Chumba Sendero (if I could afford it) for nearly $1,000 less, and those are made five miles from my house.

Very low volume and high quality i guess. Havent seen one up close in person yet. Problem is i live 20 miles from reeb which sure makes it tempting to take a look at one. But then i would be saving $ for a lot longer if I decided that i need one!

 

[mack_turtle]

Esker Hayduke

Japhy might be closer but that BB drop is deep. that's high on my list as well. I think I know someone who is riding a rigid one now but I need to double check.

 

[CCSS]

I’m cheating, since I know you. And I know the trails you ride.

I’ve been through close to the same number of hardtails as you in a similar timeframe. And I tend to like the same characteristics in frames/bikes…

I think your generalized “short rear end, higher BB, longer front” is pretty spot on for me, too. And I think you’re going to have a hard time getting exactly what you (or I) would want in the newest crop of single speedable frames. They’re pretty much all too long, low and slack (HTA and STA), and/or designed for a 140mm+ fork.

I was lucky because I had two bikes that I loved certain things about. 1) Black Cat rigid SS (super short rear end, crazy flickable), but too short a WB to easily navigate big techy climbs and drops, and it didn’t fit big tires. 2) OG Krampus rigid SS (stable, big-tire capability, relatively nimble because I ran a shorter A:C fork than stock), but too long a rear end, and I was sick of the track ends.

So I had Walt build a best of both bikes for me for my 50th.

3 years later and I’m having him build another right now. Basically a better (for me) Japhy…. It’ll have a shorter rear end, higher BB, steeper HTA, slacker STA and room to slam a 2.6. If I could’ve bought this frame off the rack, I would have. The Myth Talos might be the closest production thing out there. And maybe a Sendero Ti.

You’re welcome to check out my bikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BadgerOne]

how to try new things

Remember curiosity is natural and that everyone starts somewhere. Try a few stiff drinks, or a popper, and don't think too hard about the details of what's about to happen. Most of all relax! At first it might be uncomfortable or hurt, but you may very well grow to like it.

Wait - what forum is this? Oh gawd, this is about bikes?? I'll show myself out...

 

[mack_turtle]

I’m cheating, since I know you. And I know the trails you ride.

...

You’re welcome to check out my bikes.

I should have just asked you. I think you're taller than me, so your bikes might be set up a little bigger. maybe with a stem swap, they would fit me. most likely, I'll just wait until I get this "new job" [fingers crossed] and buy a Sendero (steel) and join the club.

 

[ladljon]

Maybe U should watch or contact services of Hardtail Party on the tube....Me personally my height 5'0", can't just buy a off the rack bike, so I have had four custom bikes built. Still love and ride three. Took awhile to get one bike to perform the way I needed....it was just the fork. Changed the fork and rides and handles to my expectations....

 

[mack_turtle]

Maybe U should watch or contact services of Hardtail Party on the tube....Me personally my height 5'0", can't just buy a off the rack bike, so I have had four custom bikes built. Still love and ride three. Took awhile to get one bike to perform the way I needed....it was just the fork. Changed the fork and rides and handles to my expectations....

I love his videos and I appreciate all the work that goes into them. I've subscribed and watched nearly everything he's put out. he clearly has very different preferences and rides very different trails from what we have in central Texas, so I have to take everything with a grain of salt. I told him that, like him, I rode BMX, and he referenced the feeling of flowing with through a rhythm section of jumps. I've never done that as I was a flatland and street rider. I spent a lot of time at the local trails (Harcourt Trails in Indianapolis, which I'm pretty sure have been plowed, RIP) and spent all my time digging and shooting photos. the last time I tried to actually jump anything, I thrashed my ankle so badly that I could not walk without crutches for a month. very different experiences and very different preferences.

 

[socal_jack]

I only use about 4 specs, but STA steepish, HTA slackish, BB sensible drop, the rest works itself out with parts.

From one vid to another on hardtail party I've seen some non sensical ****.especially concerning stack and riser bars, YMMV. I mean same stuff you see when reviewers get free stuff.