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Pacifist Guerilla
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've learned quite a few things about video editing over the years, so I thought I'd share some tips with y'all.

These are all basically things that I try to do, and might not fit with everyones style of vid making, I'm concentrating more on how to make something like a pro section.

1. Firstly, don't use a whole sequence of fixed position shots strung together. They look really good on their own or a couple of clips, but whole videos made out of what is essentially the same shot makes for dull viewing. Intersperse your tripod/sitting on a log camera shots with headcam/barcam shots.

2. Secondly, another note about fixed position shots. Do not start every clip with you off screen and entering, and then cutting when you have left the shot. Make your cuts faster and more intuitive. Don't make the viewer have to wait, unless its a build up to something big. Try something like starting the clip with the rider half on screen, and almost always before they leave shot. Sounds strange but when you watch it as a whole it will work. This is especially important for xc trail videos where the riding may not be so fast, and waiting for a rider to exit the screen before the next cut in every clip is boring and disrupts the flow of your video. Do some sections where the cuts are very quick and you dont even see the entire action. You'd be surprised how perceptive a viewer is, you don't need to make everything blatantly obvious if that makes sense. Watch pro films to see how they make nice cuts, and rip them the hell off!

3. When tackling a nice obstacle, shoot it 3 or 4 times to get different angles you can cut to. The most helpful thing you can have is someone else helping to film you.
For example: on a ladder with say, a steep entry and a drop exit, get a fixed approach shot, cut to a closer moving shot when on the ladder, cut to fixed shot of the same action, and cut to one or other for the exit shot. Just try and mix it up a little. It will make your tech skills look more impressive and make for much more interesting viewing. Watch videos of northshore stuff (ignoring the cablecam shots, unless you have one!)

4. Music. Often such an overlooked part. First off, do not make your video and then fire your favourite song over the top of it. Chances are it won't fit, and will just become something to fill the silence. It should be much more than that! The best sections in films are ALWAYS when the editor has considered what is happening in the soundtrack. Have your song picked first, and then make your movie along to it. The blend between backing track and footage can be really effective, so use your cuts to get a rhythm going, that will make it seem smoother flowing. Remember the music can also give you a structure to work with. Also, tracks that are mostly song, with stops and starts and loads of lyrics dont tend to work. You need something a little more constant that you get get some flow from. For the perfect example of this see Fabien Barel's part in NWD8.

5. Overlays and Titles. When titling your films, dont slam big 3D/multicoloured fonts over it, it will end up looking like a powerpoint presentation. (You know what I mean right?) And instantly be obvious that you made it in movie maker. Something that people hardly ever do is use subtlety when it comes to words on the screen. Use plain, smooth fonts that dont scream "i used the raddest default font, see it has fire and a shadow!", because unless you have adobe after effects it will probably look naff. Also, i try not to have your titles flying in from the top or bottom of the screen, keep it simple, it looks better. Maybe for a location, have it come in from the left side into the left corner, and then shoot offscreen the way it came. Play around with things like that. But I generally like to avoid moving text around.

6. When you are about to make a directorial desicion, do not announce it in large letters on the screen. e.g. the clip is about to speed up, so i'll write "Lets Speed It Up!" on the screen. :skep: I know you've sped it up, i can see that. It would've looked cool, but for the fact that you told me you were doing it. Basically never tell the viewer something they can see perfectly well for themselves. You should only be using words for titling. locations and credits. If theres a story behind a scene put it on a black screen as a paragraph, and slow fade from that into the scene. Or something like that.

7. Effects Transitions (star wipe, shattering screen, etc etc). Don't touch them. Ever. They are there for people to make daft videos of their kids. Which in turn will make your slick mtb vid look like a lame home movie. Only use the crossfade (one clip fading into another) or the fade out/fade in. These are very useful. When you have a fade though, try to make it fairly slow don't rush it, if you want a sudden effect, just cut from black straight into a clip. That can look very cool. (I mean for the end/beginning of a segment, not between cuts.)



There you go thats all I can think of just now. I guarantee that if you follow each of these to at least some extent it will improve your movies. :thumbsup: (Or maybe not, you might already be quite good ;) )
 

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yeah, uh............bikes
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Lead by example. I haven't gone to the website in your signature yet, but I can't seem to find your videos posted here on the mtbr. ?? If you've got some good footage, please share. :thumbsup:
 

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Pacifist Guerilla
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
FloridaFish said:
Lead by example. I haven't gone to the website in your signature yet, but I can't seem to find your videos posted here on the mtbr. ?? If you've got some good footage, please share. :thumbsup:
The site in my sig is a shop. I'm afraid I don't have anything that I would be allowed to upload, and frankly I'm too busy with my degree just now to make anything bike related :(. Hopefully sometime soon, but probably not until summer.
 

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redrook said:
The site in my sig is a shop. I'm afraid I don't have anything that I would be allowed to upload, and frankly I'm too busy with my degree just now to make anything. Hopefully sometime soon, but probably not until summer.
It's up to you wether you choose to follow my advice or not, you'll just have to trust me. Its not much effort to try any of the things ive suggested, and if you don't like it don't use it.
I wonder if they have an equivalent to "All hat, no cattle" on that side of the pond?
 

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Pacifist Guerilla
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
curious george said:
I wonder if they have an equivalent to "All hat, no cattle" on that side of the pond?
I'm sure we have an equivalent, but I get it. If you have actually read it and theres something you disagree with say so.
Reading through your posts you seem to like giving people advice about camera work so you of all people should be agreeing with this. Have you got links to any videos of yours?
Geez, I thought this would be helpful to people.
 

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redrook said:
I'm sure we have an equivalent, but I get it.
So you apparently have posted videos to Youtube, why won't you share them so folks can judge for themselves?

redrook said:
If you have actually read it and theres something you disagree with say so.
I was originally commenting upon your desire to dispense advice but your unwillingness to back that advice up with any videos that you've created following your own advice. Hence, "all hat, no cattle."

I could go through many of your pronouncements above with examples of how your absolutes don't apply (all fixed shots, only use fades, repeated abgles, etc.) but that would be belaboring the point.

redrook said:
Have you got links to any videos of yours?
Sure thing:

http://www.petefagerlin.com/video_gallery.htm

Where is the link to your videos?

redrook said:
Geez, I thought this would be helpful to people.
I'm sure some of it was helpful to some folks. I just think some of your pronouncements were off base.
 

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Pacifist Guerilla
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
curious george said:
So you apparently have posted videos to Youtube, why won't you share them so folks can judge for themselves?
I was originally commenting upon your desire to dispense advice but your unwillingness to back that advice up with any videos that you've created following your own advice. Hence, "all hat, no cattle."
I could go through many of your pronouncements above with examples of how your absolutes don't apply (all fixed shots, only use fades, repeated abgles, etc.) but that would be belaboring the point.

Sure thing:

http://www.petefagerlin.com/video_gallery.htm

Where is the link to your videos?
I have posted things on youtube, quite a few things, but no bike videos. Hence I have nothing relevant to post. I would be very willing to share a video, but as I have said 3 times I am extremely busy with uni course, I'm not even in the same county as my bike just now.

As I said, these are only my opinions, and unlike you, I am not procaliming to be a know-it-all. Also reading through your posts, i see you have never started a thread, and most of your posts are argumentative.

If you watch professional videos, you will notice that they do not use reaped angles for entire sections (unless of course they use a helicopter, maybe you have one?)
As for fades. Again, watch proffessionals. Unless you access to after effects, which the majority do not, there are few default transitions that dont look naff.
The all fixed shots thing bores me, therefore I can categorically state that it makes dull viewing. I don't really care if you like it, it bores me. And again, watch a pro editor, they wont do that.
Now of course, there are always exceptions to any rule, but as basic generalites for the untrained, I sand by everything.

You will have to face the fact that all advice is opinion, these are opinions, take it or leave it. Alot of my advice comes from observations, watching professionals, from thier work in videos and as they do it. I know that I know what I'm talking about, and reading through it again I really dont think any of it needs proved since its all fairly straightforward to understand.

I only watched one of yours, because they are quite big files, so i watched the ft bragg one.
It seemed quite competant. Initially my only criticsm is that in the headcam you have left the sound on, so you get the wind noise which i would have muted. But depends what you're going for. It is a shame there are no moving shots, but again thats something you can only do if you have someone else there, as I said. A slow pan from a tripod as you go round one of those turns would look nice.
But other than that, you seem to have done exactly the things that i said. You have interspersed the types of clip, you have kept your cuts quite nicely timed, and you have avoided all naff cliches. So in showing me that video youve just eaten your words. In fact each of the things you disagreed with, you did in this video. I really don't see what your problem is, other than the fact you like making one for no reason.
Anyway, I enjoyed that vid and I'll try and work my way through some more of them, thanks.

EDIT: Have just watched turkeycreek. I think you and I are differing in perception here. I am aiming at people who are trying to create a section, rather than a document of a ride. My critique of that video would be quite long, but ultimately redundant, because you are not trying to create the sort of video that I'm talking about. As a document of a ride it was quite good.
 

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redrook said:
I have posted things on youtube, quite a few things, but no bike videos.
So why not post them? Editing is editing, regardless of subject.

redrook said:
As I said, these are only my opinions, and unlike you, I am not procaliming to be a know-it-all.
Where did I proclaim myself to be a know-it-all?

Please quote where I claimed that. Thanks.

redrook said:
As for fades. Again, watch proffessionals. Unless you access to after effects, which the majority do not, there are few default transitions that dont look naff.
Yes. Watch professional videos. Count how many times they do not use fades, but use cuts instead for their transitions. Get it?

redrook said:
The all fixed shots thing bores me, therefore I can categorically state that it makes dull viewing.
Who is the "know-it-all"?

redrook said:
I know that I know what I'm talking about,
I disagree.

redrook said:
I only watched one of yours, because they are quite big files, so i watched the ft bragg one.
It seemed quite competant. Initially my only criticsm is that in the headcam you have left the sound on, so you get the wind noise which i would have muted.
Trail noise can add to the realistic feel/ambiance to the video. Especially if it is dropped down to be background rather than foreground audio.

redrook said:
But depends what you're going for. It is a shame there are no moving shots, but again thats something you can only do if you have someone else there, as I said. A slow pan from a tripod as you go round one of those turns would look nice.
But other than that, you seem to have done exactly the things that i said. You have interspersed the types of clip, you have kept your cuts quite nicely timed, and you have avoided all naff cliches. So in showing me that video youve just eaten your words. In fact each of the things you disagreed with, you did in this video. I really don't see what your problem is, other than the fact you like making one for no reason.
What you seem to fail to understand is that not all videos have the purpose that you seem to have set as the only purpose (a "pro" video). Some videos are merely shot on the fly with few B roll shots so as not to interrupt the ride. Some are shot as solo efforts to highlight a trail, or as a comparison between camera setups (ft. bragg), etc. etc.

No, I didn't "eat my words" by linking to my vids and each of the things that I disagreed with I did not do in that video. Many of your pronouncements remain quite silly.

redrook said:
EDIT: Have just watched turkeycreek. I think you and I are differing in perception here. I am aiming at people who are trying to create a section, rather than a document of a ride. My critique of that video would be quite long, but ultimately redundant, because you are not trying to create the sort of video that I'm talking about. As a document of a ride it was quite good.
See above.

Perhaps you should re-title this thread to "How To Make Your Video Resemble The Limited Type Of Video That "redrook" Thinks Is The Best"
 

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Pacifist Guerilla
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
curious george said:
So why not post them? Editing is editing, regardless of subject.
Yes. Watch professional videos. Count how many times they do not use fades, but use cuts instead for their transitions. Get it?

Trail noise can add to the realistic feel/ambiance to the video. Especially if it is dropped down to be background rather than foreground audio.

What you seem to fail to understand is that not all videos have the purpose that you seem to have set as the only purpose (a "pro" video). Some videos are merely shot on the fly with few B roll shots so as not to interrupt the ride. Some are shot as solo efforts to highlight a trail, or as a comparison between camera setups (ft. bragg), etc. etc.
Actually they use fades all the time. Also, isnt there a whole bit in there about using cuts instead? There is, there is a whole bit in there about using cuts instead.

Yup, the trail noise achieves that exact effect, hence I said, depends what youre going for.

*sigh* No I dont fail to see understand, I have said few times that this is just my opinion and this is just to do with the way I'm talking about. Didnt say, or even insinuate that this was the only way to make a movie. I am merely relaying some things I have learned working with professionals. What you dont understand is that including any "professional" element to a video will make it even better regadless of purpose.

I think i just said were talking about different types of film. I did, I did just say that. And again, if my video is limited then why do your films all follow the rules ive written.

You remind me of how my kid brother used to be, now piss off if youre going to be argumentative, youre clogging up my thread. I will not reply to you again, ciao.:thumbsup: :)
 

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My spoon is too big!
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curious george said:
Sure thing:

http://www.petefagerlin.com/video_gallery.htm

Where is the link to your videos?
I sincerely hope you actually are Pete Fagerlin, posting under a different user name, and not just taking credit for his work. :nono:

I think the OP makes some great observations and suggestions. You don't have to be a pro videographer to know a boring video when you see it. redrook simply took the time to express his opinions in writing. Nobody has to take it for gospel. I happen to agree with him, and my first attempt at editing is sticking with most of his points.
 

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Pacifist Guerilla
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
mbyard said:
I sincerely hope you actually are Pete Fagerlin, posting under a different user name, and not just taking credit for his work. :nono:

I think the OP makes some great observations and suggestions. You don't have to be a pro videographer to know a boring video when you see it. redrook simply took the time to express his opinions in writing. Nobody has to take it for gospel. I happen to agree with him, and my first attempt at editing is sticking with most of his points.
Thanks friend, glad to be of any help. Look forward to seeing your video :thumbsup:
 

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yeah, uh............bikes
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mbyard said:
I sincerely hope you actually are Pete Fagerlin, posting under a different user name, and not just taking credit for his work. :nono:
he's certainly done it before.......and you know it's gonna get ugly when even the infamous Pete is using a pseudo-screen-nym.




btw, redrook, i hope my comment didn't come off sounding negative and starting all this, I was only jokin.
 

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Pacifist Guerilla
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
FloridaFish said:
btw, redrook, i hope my comment didn't come off sounding negative and starting all this, I was only jokin.
heh not at all man, i didnt want to start an argument and your comment coulve been taken either way so i assumed the best ;)
 

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redrook said:
Actually they use fades all the time. Also, isnt there a whole bit in there about using cuts instead? There is, there is a whole bit in there about using cuts instead.

Yup, the trail noise achieves that exact effect, hence I said, depends what youre going for.

*sigh* No I dont fail to see understand, I have said few times that this is just my opinion and this is just to do with the way I'm talking about. Didnt say, or even insinuate that this was the only way to make a movie. I am merely relaying some things I have learned working with professionals. What you dont understand is that including any "professional" element to a video will make it even better regadless of purpose.

I think i just said were talking about different types of film. I did, I did just say that. And again, if my video is limited then why do your films all follow the rules ive written.

You remind me of how my kid brother used to be, now piss off if youre going to be argumentative, youre clogging up my thread. I will not reply to you again, ciao.
That was funny.

Now, why are you afraid to link to all of those videos that you've made?
 
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