[67King]

Been invited out a couple of times in the past couple of weeks on some longer, harder trails. I'm fine for say an hour and a half, then I just crash. Hard. My legs just turn to jello. Biking is secondary for me, I'm primarily a swimmer. Have done some marathon swims (10K), and am among the fastest. Resting heart rate is low 40's. On the long swims (2+ hours), I can hold a heart rate of 140 without much of an issue.

Last week, I was mid pack, more guys, wider range of ages and ability level. Had more time to rest as we let the back markers catch up, and it was a night ride, so not quite as fast. Yesterday there were 3 of us, one guy my age, one guy about 20 years older (this guy is a badass - there is some MTB ride in Nepal he is the oldest guy to ever complete). Yesterday we rode for about 2.5 hours, but the last hour I was having a hard time keeping pace. Which is to say my riding partners were waiting for me. Heart rate for the duration was only 110. I'd catch them waiting for me, they were winded, but I wasn't. 18 miles, 1800 feet of climbing. Some pretty darn steep grades. If any of you have ridden in Knoxville, this is the Urban Wilderness area, some of the more technical trails.

So it isn't conditioning. My legs just flat out won't go. That said, two other factors. One, I'm somewhat capable, but still ride more like a beginner, in that I can't carry my momentum as well, so I know I'm working harder. They have nice lightweight carbon bikes, probably 10 pounds lighter than my ,more entry level (Giant Stance) aluminum one. And I'm also the only guy on 27.5's. So the rollovers are harder for me than most others.

I tried to stay fed, but it isn't always easy. Keeping electrolytes in the bottle, water in the camelback. Gu's every hour. What advice do y'all have? Do I need to hit the gym and do weight training? Just ride more often? Will doing something more nutritionally help (on my swims, I have electrolytes every 30 minutes, and a Gu on the top of hour #1.......and 2 if I'm not close to the finish)? I also can handle 35 mile road rides wtih similar climbing, but lower grade, longer climbs, without too much of an issue. Although, my road bike is more in line with what the guys I ride with ride (i.e. much nicer). I'm not big on an arms race with the bike, but is that a bigger factor than I think (i.e. do I really need a nicer, lighter, 29-er)?

Oh yeah. On my own, I do a loop that is about 11.5 miles, still narrow, twisty, single track. Similar climb, 1150 feet. Can do that one in under 1:10, so a lot faster. And don't tire out. I just seem to hit a brick wall with the legs at about 1:30.

Any help appreciated.

 

[DannyHuynh]

Ride at your own pace, don't try to keep up with faster riders. Thats a quick way to blow up. Sit and spin, don't stand up and mash if possible. I used to bonk around mile 17. I was only drinking water and eating gummies. Now I have a bottle of Cytomax Sport drink handy and have not bonked out since i started drinking the sports drink all throughout my rides. I also try to prehydrate before my rides. I drink a ton of water right before the ride. I find that I dont need to eat sport gummies anymore while riding but have them in my pack anyway just in case. Hope this helps.

 

[eb1888]

More info would be fun to analyze.
Swap bikes with one of the guys you can't keep up with and do that 2.5 hour ride over again.
That'll isolate the bike difference factor. You'd get feedback from him also.
For fuel I like to use a premade in bulk complex carb mix of 15+ different beans, rices, peas(dal) mixed with some olive oil and butter for fat and peanut butter with a little bbq or hot sauce flavoring before a ride. Just a few tablespoons heated will do for about 4 hours. And it really cuts recovery down.

 

[Shark]

Have you tried real food (not gu's)?
A mid ride pb+j treats me much better then those gel things.

You may just need to ride more, so the legs get used to it.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[VegasSingleSpeed]

It's conditioning. Ride longer rides on your own. Build up some endurance so that you can hang with the long group ride.

 

[norcalbike]

If you have a trainer at your disposal try holding 140 watts or so (depends on your FTP, but this is assuming you’re around 240 watts) for 45 minutes , then 60, then 90. Get used to what that effort in zone 2 feels like. Try and replicate that on long solo rides. That’s what works for me at least. Then when it’s game time I can comfortably spin for ages, and do the occasional burst of tempo or threshold on a longer ride.

 

[127.0.0.1]

keep riding

/thread

 

[LMN]

As mention, it is conditioning.

There is some cross over from swimming but not a lot.

Look at it from the other way. On a bike I am quite fit, I regularly roll 4hr endurance rides with mountain bike Olympians. 20 years ago I was a fairly competent swimmer (22min 1500m). Despite my high level of bike fitness and decent swimming skills I am not confident that I could actually currently complete a 1500m swim. The swimming condition just isn't there, and it would take a lot of work to get it back.

Now you are looking to develop bike conditioning for the really first time. Your swimming background will shorten the time frame a bit but you are still looking at a lot of riding before you start to feel bike fit.

 

[LMN]

I didn't really answer your question in my first post.

Short term fixes.
-Watch the high efforts. Short steep climbs that you hit hard have a significant cumulative effect. You don't particularly feel them at the time but they nuke your legs later down the road.
-Be mellow at the start. Ride at or near the back early in the ride. You will find that you will feel relatively stronger as the ride progresses.
-Use a higher cadence. Pushing a low cadence takes a fair bike of muscular strength. Using a higher cadence will save your legs to a certain extent, but at the cost of a slightly high heart rate.

Medium term fixes.
- Sneak in some mid-week road ride. Flat road rides are amazing for rapidly developing your ability to maintain pace on longer rides.

Long term: Ride lots.

 

[barelfly]

It’s conditioning. As other have stated. If you want to ride good for 2.5 hours, you need to be able to ride 3.5 hours. Just time in the saddle is all you need, which will lead to incremental gains on the bike. When you are in a group ride, you are trying to keep up so you may be riding a bit harder than you are ready for, but more riding will help this and after time, you will be towards the front.

And, like LMN says, don’t kill yourself at the beginning. Know your strengths and weaknesses, and ride from there. When groups ride together, good ones know there will be a spread and are ok with that. You’ll be fine.

Heck, earlier this summer, I was riding a POS MTB with 10 other guys, I was the last one throughout the 3 hours. After an MTB upgrade to a modern bike and then riding the crap out of that thing and getting in long road rides, I’m can keep up because my skills are better but I also have much better endurance.

Last - just go have fun!

 

[j-t-g]

I find that I dont need to eat sport gummies anymore while riding but have them in my pack anyway just in case. Hope this helps.

But what if I want to keep eating gummies while I ride?

 

[KobayashiMaru]

LMN mentioned something spot on. I was at the peak of my cycling fitness in 2020. I had to run around the entire distribution center I worked out of once to make a meeting in time, since the gate station was way backed up... I thought it would be a breeze because I was in such good shape. A minute or two into the run I had the very clear realization that there is very little cross over between cycling and running. Just because your cardio engine can run doesn't mean you're up to a new task you're not conditioned to specifically.

Something else I have figured out, although I've known about it for a long time. (As my father always said, "Some can be taught and others will have to learn".) I've heard forever that high volume, low intensity stuff really builds the engine for endurance and being fast when you want to be. In 2020, at my peak, not only was I riding more than I ever had at mostly 60-70% of my max heart rate, I had also spent years throwing 38,000 to 40,000 pounds of cases on my 18 wheeler trailer. I'd move every case on every pallet by hand, sorting each different item from every other item, putting pallets on top of other palletized product, lifting them by hand too. That sort of work wasn't a race. It took anywhere from 7-11 hours. You had to pace yourself. I did that 2 or 3 times a week for years at that point. That sort of slow and steady work builds endurance, and gives you the base to let it rip when you want to, provided you also train to be able to rip.

I stopped working that much and that hard after Covid hit, and I haven't been as awesome on the bike since. I did get sick with Covid and it took a ton from me, but I think the lack of endurance was more than just coincidence around getting sick. You've got to spend the hours on the bike, probably going slower for most of it than you think you should.

As far as food... I never ate during a ride, unless it was going to be over 20-25 miles. Most of my riding was in the morning after 15-16 hours had passed since my last meal and while a lot of it was at low intensity, plenty of it was all out time trial sort of stuff. Not to brag or anything, just to say as others already have... there is a lot to be said about conditioning and what you're used to.

You probably already know this, but overtraining is something to keep a close watch on. Whenever I felt like I should be making progress and could tell I wasn't, I was probably hitting it too hard too often. Softening up for 2 or 3 weeks usually set me straight. And holy crap, getting enough sleep can not be understated.

Just keep working at it. You'll get there.

 

[RickBullottaPA]

A lot of things matter on long rides.

• Fitness (not just endurance fitness but intense power work helps on long rides too).
• Nutrition/hydration (you have to prepare and practice hydrating and eating on longer rides).
• Bike fit (often overlooked but can have an exaggerated effect on longer efforts).
• Clothing and gear (feet swell, chamois gets clammy, etc.)
• Strategy (managing your effort over the duration)

 

[FortOrdMTB]

keep riding

/thread

+1.

Don‘t expect to be a good marathoner if you don’t run more than 10k.

 

[CrozCountry]

You need to ride more than once a week. You can also do this on a trainer. If you are in the gym, some leg presses after that or something similar at home. More important to mountain bikers than road bikers.

On the ride keep steady effort without spikes. Ride with people at your level or a little bit higher, not a lot higher than you. You need to work up to it, it's not going to happen overnight.

 

[thatalexguy]

You will eventually get used to it. Swimming and cycling tax the body differently. Your cardiovascular endurance from swimming definitely helps you but you need to build muscular endurance in the legs by riding. Eat easily digestible foods thru out the ride and drink liquids with light carbohydrates and salts like Scratch Labs, Carborocket or anything similar. I personally use Carborocket, Neversecond, Infinite, and Maruten depending on what I need for the ride. I also bring Cliff blocks with me to eat.

Bike fit can also have an effect. A saddle too low, too high or too far back can put you in a less efficient pedaling position wasting energy. Since you are a swimmer with strong cardio, I recommend you pedal one gear easier than you normally do so that you pedal at higher RPMs rather than a low RPM grind. You will be more efficient at higher RPMs.

 

[Juansan]

Tramadol, EPO, Testosterone, Clenbuterol, hGH or ride more, eat right ( vegan ) get enough sleep, hydrate, etc.

 

[Stewiewin]

Been invited out a couple of times in the past couple of weeks on some longer, harder trails. I'm fine for say an hour and a half, then I just crash. Hard. My legs just turn to jello. Biking is secondary for me, I'm primarily a swimmer. Have done some marathon swims (10K), and am among the fastest. Resting heart rate is low 40's. On the long swims (2+ hours), I can hold a heart rate of 140 without much of an issue.

Last week, I was mid pack, more guys, wider range of ages and ability level. Had more time to rest as we let the back markers catch up, and it was a night ride, so not quite as fast. Yesterday there were 3 of us, one guy my age, one guy about 20 years older (this guy is a badass - there is some MTB ride in Nepal he is the oldest guy to ever complete). Yesterday we rode for about 2.5 hours, but the last hour I was having a hard time keeping pace. Which is to say my riding partners were waiting for me. Heart rate for the duration was only 110. I'd catch them waiting for me, they were winded, but I wasn't. 18 miles, 1800 feet of climbing. Some pretty darn steep grades. If any of you have ridden in Knoxville, this is the Urban Wilderness area, some of the more technical trails.

So it isn't conditioning. My legs just flat out won't go. That said, two other factors. One, I'm somewhat capable, but still ride more like a beginner, in that I can't carry my momentum as well, so I know I'm working harder. They have nice lightweight carbon bikes, probably 10 pounds lighter than my ,more entry level (Giant Stance) aluminum one. And I'm also the only guy on 27.5's. So the rollovers are harder for me than most others.

I tried to stay fed, but it isn't always easy. Keeping electrolytes in the bottle, water in the camelback. Gu's every hour. What advice do y'all have? Do I need to hit the gym and do weight training? Just ride more often? Will doing something more nutritionally help (on my swims, I have electrolytes every 30 minutes, and a Gu on the top of hour #1.......and 2 if I'm not close to the finish)? I also can handle 35 mile road rides wtih similar climbing, but lower grade, longer climbs, without too much of an issue. Although, my road bike is more in line with what the guys I ride with ride (i.e. much nicer). I'm not big on an arms race with the bike, but is that a bigger factor than I think (i.e. do I really need a nicer, lighter, 29-er)?

Oh yeah. On my own, I do a loop that is about 11.5 miles, still narrow, twisty, single track. Similar climb, 1150 feet. Can do that one in under 1:10, so a lot faster. And don't tire out. I just seem to hit a brick wall with the legs at about 1:30.

Any help appreciated.

Go see a doctor 👌

 

[DannyHuynh]

But what if I want to keep eating gummies while I ride?

Eat those gummies! I like to bust them out at the top of a big climb and pass them around to my buddies as a little spirit boost.

 

[r-rocket]

ebike