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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have been forced, due to injury, out on the road for most of my riding. Pinched (herniated) nerve in my neck.....C6, C7.,

So I am riding my hardtail and using worn down Nokian 2.0 Lights.....
A fellow board reader from my area was kind enough to turn me onto his used/worn Nokians which being worn present a smooth/fast running profile for the pavement.
I pump them up to 55 and 58 psi and run tubes. His used Nokians are preferable to my buying brand new (full knobbed) to replace my present worn Nokians. I like them worn.

Now my question is about the old residual dried Eclipse sealant left in the tubes from the previous owner who ran tubeless.
I'm not so concerned about he weight since it can't be very much, but I am wondering about the dried sealant surface and how it might react or rub on the tube.
Normally the Nokians have a smooth, almost slippery, surface inside. With dried sealant it is kind of rough and sticky....
A few questions...

1. Would this dried rough sealant cause the tube to wear or weaken as the tire flexes during use?

2. Would the rough dried sealant make the interaction between tube and the tire such that it would cause extra rolling resistance in excess of normal tube/ clean tire interaction?
Extra watts used up?

3. If removal of the dried Eclipse sealant is desireable, what is the best way to remove it

4. Just curious, but if I didn't run tubes, what is he maximum tire pressure that is safe with the Eclipse System+ Nokian 2.0 LIghts?
 

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1. I don't think so. It's just latex after all.
2. It probably does raise rolling resistance a bit.
3. I just peeled it off with my fingers. No problem at all.
4. The manual says 55 psi max pressure is allowed with Eclipse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Lots of variables involved in my usage

Roger G said:
1. I don't think so. It's just latex after all.
2. It probably does raise rolling resistance a bit.
3. I just peeled it off with my fingers. No problem at all.
4. The manual says 55 psi max pressure is allowed with Eclipse.
Thanks for the answers..........I'm concerned about the potential loss of watts...

I'm also wondering that even if I could run them at 55 psi.........if the watts advantage at that high pressure is as great as the watts advantage (reported in the German tests) is at the more normal lower pressures...which i think were about 35 to 40 psi....
And also if I am losing a bit by dropping my psi from 58 to 55 thus offsetting any/some of the tubeless advantage in rolling resistance. In other words if I pick up 3 watts per tire at 38 psi but only 2 watts at 55 psi AND I lose 1 watt by dropping from 58 psi to the max 55 psi then my net advantage may only be 1 watt per tire with the Eclipse system versus light tubes.

I just get this feeling that even under pressure, that the normal slippery tire inside allows for the tube to move around without binding, while with the sticky sealant still there it may bind and thus use up micro amounts of watts compared to the normal clean tire inside.
But I have no science to back up this feeling. Possibly at high pressure there is no movement anytime in the tube/tire interaction and thus no additional friction or energy lost that could be increased due to the old dried sealant.

Of course my usage is very rare compared to normal mtn biking.....being out on paved roads with high psi.....while on "very worn" Nokians....
Lots of variables.........I'll probably just try to clean out the latex sealant with my fingers or perhaps some mild detergent..........or perhaps rubbing alcohol????
Would rubbing alcohol work and/or would it degrade the tire rubber?
Anything else other than rubbing my fingers raw pushing it off?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No, I won't be riding on new ones.......older is better for me

Motivated said:
By the time you answer those questiong the Nokian will be worn out and you will need to buy an new one that obviously doesn't have dried latex in it.
No, you don't understand.......and it may not be all that serious........but I have a new Nokian still in the box.........but I only want to ride on very worn Nokians for my particular use on pavement.....I won't go into all the details of why.

So I will for the forseeable future be riding on used, very worn, Nokians, and the latest 2 I now have, both have dried sealant in them and I will be using tubes at 55 to 58 psi.
So this is not about new versus old..........and not about dollars saved.......I wouldn't want new ones even if they were free. In fact, as I said, I have a new one still in the box.

Still, thanks for responding...
 

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I was joking

I run a Nokian and they are good, but the wear rate is so fast . . . It seems you are taking advantage of that?

Apparantly I don't want to get into why you don't run slicks instead of heavily worn Nokians. But I can't resist saying (feel free to ignore this) that if you run tubes why are you so concerned about RR.

Anyway, you can try to get the sealant out with hot soapy water and a dishware scotch-brite pad (i.e. the blue one - not the green one). It is a PITA and probably not so good for your tire.

Chester said:
No, you don't understand.......and it may not be all that serious........but I have a new Nokian still in the box.........but I only want to ride on very worn Nokians for my particular use on pavement.....I won't go into all the details of why.

So I will for the forseeable future be riding on used, very worn, Nokians, and the latest 2 I now have, both have dried sealant in them and I will be using tubes at 55 to 58 psi.
So this is not about new versus old..........and not about dollars saved.......I wouldn't want new ones even if they were free. In fact, as I said, I have a new one still in the box.

Still, thanks for responding...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'll try the hot soapy water

Motivated said:
I run a Nokian and they are good, but the wear rate is so fast . . . It seems you are taking advantage of that?

Apparantly I don't want to get into why you don't run slicks instead of heavily worn Nokians. But I can't resist saying (feel free to ignore this) that if you run tubes why are you so concerned about RR.

Anyway, you can try to get the sealant out with hot soapy water and a dishware scotch-brite pad (i.e. the blue one - not the green one). It is a PITA and probably not so good for your tire.
Well, all things being equal.......with or without tubes......the Nokian is a fast tire.
Now I still run a bit in the park......on some trails....though not technical ones, and I''ve just had some bad experiences on real slicks. The worn Nokians still do a much better job on dirt than slicks....especially slicks at high psi. This is especially true of narrow slicks..
1.0 to 1.25 inches at 85 to 100+ psi. I have some 1.25 85 psi slicks and had some painful crashes. They just go out from under you with no notice. Suddenly you're on the ground........plus they give very little cushion even compared to a higher psi Nokian. Also some times I just let some air out from my road 55 and 58; pressure and take the Nokians on the trail at 30 to 35 psi. Comfortable for my neck problem. It makes the Nokians very versatile for my uses. Later I can quickly pump them right back up and go back on the road.

Also I have not seen convincing evidence that a 1.75 or 2.0 slick would roll faster than a worn Nokian 2.0. The Nokians, even when worn way down still have some knobs on the sides which help when off road.

As to going tubeless with the worn Nokians at 55 and 58 psi.........with the limit being 55 psi according to Eclipse, I'm not sure I want to run right up to the edge of the limits.
I really don't know what happens if you have too much pressure. Might it just blow off the rim on some hard turn at speed? I guess I feel safer with the tubes......and of course the cost is diffferent as well as the complications.

One last point. I am not certain about the degree of advantage in terms of watts when you get up to pressures of 55 and greater. Do you still get the 3 watts of lower rolling resistance at those pressure? Seems from memory that the RR at about 35 psi in the Germans tests was about 21.4 on the tubed Nokians and about 18.4 on the Eclipse version..... Would that 3 watt spread still hold true at 55+ even if it was safe?

Or would I lose some of that advantage by having to stick to a 55 limit instead of going up to 58 or so as I do now? My roadie psi has been creeping up. I used to only do about 50 and slowly I keep putting more pressure in. The tire says 65 psi is OK but I'm uncertain how that pressure would make the tire behave.....especially on tight, fast banked turns.
I'm sometimes nervous doing hard banked turns when I know I'll be running on those side knobs instead of a smooth surface like road tires have. Thus I've been creeping up on my tire pressure and getting a feel for how they corner. So far so good. No tire related crashes.

All in all when Nokians are worn down.....especially the rear one......they roll very well on pavement. And surprising is how the rapid wear rate slows way way down the smoother they get. Perhaps they would roll a bit better using the Eclipse system.
I don't know enough to have a feel for the advantage to be gained. Perhaps someone has some theoretical ideas about this unusual aspect of use for a Nokian.
All in all........I have fun out on the road, especially on the climbs, where some of the road bike advantage disappears. Funny though, everyone seems to pedal a bit harder when a mtn bike comes up behind them.... I like that.......get a good workout.
Thanks for your imput.......I'll try the hot soapy water......instead of gasoline :D
 

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I pumped my Nokian (rear) to 55psi and as I reached down to remove the pump head. . .

Kaboom! The tire exploded off the rim. I have after-the-fact pictures. Fortunately the latex went away from me and also did not coat my bike, but my tools and such got a nice sprinkling of sealant. I was very suspicious of the tire because the bead goes on soooo easy and it got easier when I installed it a second time. I think the bead streched.

I can see your points about using the Nokian, but I think it is a race tire and should not be used for general training (what's the point of having fast tires while training anyway?). I personally will not be buying another Nokian. The one I bought a year ago shredded within 2 weeks. This one was way overweight (550g!) and although it did roll well and hold up I just think the quality is poor. A tire that fluctuates that much in weight is an indicator of poor process control. I'll be "sticking" with Scwalbe - they have a really nice quality feel and the Racing Ralph has never let me down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Kaboom......Yikes, I'm sticking with tubes at 55 psi and above

Motivated said:
I pumped my Nokian (rear) to 55psi and as I reached down to remove the pump head. . .

Kaboom! The tire exploded off the rim. I have after-the-fact pictures. Fortunately the latex went away from me and also did not coat my bike, but my tools and such got a nice sprinkling of sealant. I was very suspicious of the tire because the bead goes on soooo easy and it got easier when I installed it a second time. I think the bead streched.

I can see your points about using the Nokian, but I think it is a race tire and should not be used for general training (what's the point of having fast tires while training anyway?). I personally will not be buying another Nokian. The one I bought a year ago shredded within 2 weeks. This one was way overweight (550g!) and although it did roll well and hold up I just think the quality is poor. A tire that fluctuates that much in weight is an indicator of poor process control. I'll be "sticking" with Scwalbe - they have a really nice quality feel and the Racing Ralph has never let me down.
Thanks for telling me about your explosion....... While it may not prove that any Nokian with Eclipse will blow off at 55 psi and above, it still gives me the chills to think about going around some corners at 35 mph on the pavement and having a tire blow off the rim.

I agree with you that it is mostly a "race" tire but when I am out training on the roads, another "race" is just around the corner when a roadie comes by just prior to a nice 3 mile climb. I'm always game for a killer battle....a race, if you will. Its not always of my choosing since whenever I come up upon some roadies and my speed takes me past them, very often they speed up, not wanting to be passed or even tailed by a mtn bike.
Lots more of a competitive atmosphere on the road, especially if you are on a mtn bike.
Of course, these little battles make the rides endless fun on one's "training" rides.
I think of them as intervals.......with roadies providing the "rabbit" role.
All good fun......most of them seem to like it and are good natured about it. A few get bent out of shape.
Anyway, thats part of the reason why I'm so interested in low but safe rolling resistance even though I'm not doing official racing. The Nokians, especially worn ones, are a "sleeper" slick. Still have some knobs, especially on the sides, but roll very fast, like a slick.
 
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