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SHRED!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone, looking forward to some commentary on this one. Nothing showed up for a google search for this, so let me be the first sucker to yield results :D

Did a full 200 hour service on my rockshox Pike as I suddenly stopped getting full travel out of them and they were just feeling harsh as all heck. Plus I bought them used and they just needed a service.

I tore into the puppies, cleaned everything, replaced everything, and then went to deal with the damper. The 200 hour service manual (https://www.yt-industries.com/media/pdf/rockshoxpikerct3en.pdf) included information on redoing the shim stack for a firmer setup. At 230lbs I'm not exactly svelt and I find myself often near maxed out on most suspension settings, so I figured I'd go stiffer.

After adjusting those specs, I went to fill the oil back up and... the manual called for 3wt, and I've got 5wt oil. Hmmm... what to do? Wait a while longer? Nah, I got to shred! So I put in 5wt in place of the 3wt.

Bled the damper, reassmbled with everything replaced. Also upgraded to debonair on the air spring sided while at it.

So... just what sort of craptastic ride are you all forecasting? I'll provide my own mediocore biker review as well after shredding it, but I want to hear what you folks thing :D
 

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EAT MORE GRIME
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I follow the manual

waiting for OP to report results
 

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Not a role model
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I guess your LSR and LCS adjuster ranges just go shifted over to the higher side, so you might have to dial them counter-clockwise a few clicks to get where you were in the past. It just changes your usable tuning range really, so you can't go as light as you're used to. Considering your weight, no problem with the LSR side, and if you are the type who prefers speed over comfort, then no problems on the LSC side. HSC and HSR shouldn't be a prob; shim stacks generally don't get affected by oil viscosity.

Doubt there's anything to regret, besides not doing the service sooner. BTW, isn't the shim stack already set fairly firm? I remember flipping the shim stack for HSR to get it to be lighter ('14 Pike).
 

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SHRED!
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So this Pike is is just the regular old boring charger damper with just compression. Didn't even have Debonair, heh.

I wasn't going to adjust the shim stack, until I saw in the manual (linked above) that they call out if you are generally nearly all the way in on rebound, go to the more "firm" shim stack setting if you'd like.

That seemed like the thing to do given I'm heavier and was generally quite in on the shim stack.

It was AFTER I'd stiffened up the shim stack that I discovered I only had 5wt oil, heh. So now I'm setup even stiffer.

I'm going to try and sneak a ride in today and see how it is.
 

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Close to closed is likely ideal. That means you're using the low speed bleed and the shim stack. Full open is what you want to avoid.

Thicker oil may spike more easily on the compression side. The damper will choke sooner.
 

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SHRED!
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Interesting. Everything I've ever done in MX spoke to trying to stay in the middle of adjustments if possible when configured for a baseline. Gives you some room to move around with settings! Too open is not ideal of course either. I was barely out to all the way closed on most of my settings.

Isn't a compression spike the equivelant of additional HSC? I'd love some stiffer HSC... unless we're talking it locks up, haha.

I'm looking at the new Charger 2.1 blah blah stuff anyways. This is the original charger, and it's only got compression. Wouldn't mind HSC and LSC adjustments!
 

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Interesting. Everything I've ever done in MX spoke to trying to stay in the middle of adjustments if possible when configured for a baseline. Gives you some room to move around with settings! Too open is not ideal of course either. I was barely out to all the way closed on most of my settings.

Isn't a compression spike the equivelant of additional HSC? I'd love some stiffer HSC... unless we're talking it locks up, haha.

I'm looking at the new Charger 2.1 blah blah stuff anyways. This is the original charger, and it's only got compression. Wouldn't mind HSC and LSC adjustments!
You are correct, staying in the middle of the range is good as you need a small amount of free bleed for the damper to respond quickly. Too much LSR means the front end will be held down in the middle of its travel even if the shims are fairly soft for recovering on big hits.

What 5wt oil did you use? It may not have that much variation in viscosity to the factory oil so it will only have a small effect at low speed (which is not a problem at all for you) and have no effect on high speed.
 

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SHRED!
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Unfortunately for that theory, I used Rockshox Brand 5w when they wanted Rockshox Brand 3w, so even if the oil weight is different than advertised, it's still relative to what Rockshox Brand weight they wanted, haha.
 

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Unfortunately for that theory, I used Rockshox Brand 5w when they wanted Rockshox Brand 3w, so even if the oil weight is different than advertised, it's still relative to what Rockshox Brand weight they wanted, haha.
Ok then you're fine since the rockshox "3wt" is a shock/damper oil and the "5wt" is a fork oil so they both actually have the same viscosity at 40*c. Operating temps are lower than that so there will be a difference in use but in reality it's not going to be any drastic change

The 2 ranges of oils that rockshox use are on a different scale and don't relate, another reason why comparing oil "weight" is very confusing

welcome to the world of suspension oil!
 

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SHRED!
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh wow, that's not at all what I expected to hear, but it does put me at ease. I've not test ridden the bike since I rebuilt it (pesky day job) but I was worried it would suck and I'd find myself tearing it all down again to go with 3wt oil.

So presuming that's correct (and you seem to be a fellow who would know) then that answers that!
 

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The clicks in the middle of the range for LSR and LSC tend to give finer/minute changes, while the clicks towards the end of the range (both open and closed side) tend to be more noticeable changes. I wouldn't consider that a downside, as much as feeling like your sweet spot is in between clicks would feel like a downside. Just something you have to take note of.

I know some have tried to address this so each click gives a consistent amount of change, using parabolic shaped needles, but I consider the extra cost a huge downside.

There's plenty of exceptions to the generalizations regarding being at the open or closed end of the range. There can be an excessive amount of threads on the open side, resulting in turns/clicks that technically do nothing, hence why most brands count clicks from full closed.
 

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SHRED!
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Isn't all the way in the needle nearly seated? Hence middle is the spot to be as the more you can take pressure off the where the needle restricts flow and put it on the shim stack, the more likely you'll get better travel right? That's at least my understanding of it all from MX.
 

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SHRED!
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
My understanding also is that since in is consistently as far in as you can go (needle nearly seated) you can get consistent adjustments from there, while all the way out can vary and thus going inwards from the out setting will not yield consistent settings on a rebuild.
 

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Like has happened to me historically...now you'll have the most fun detective game figuring out why it feels crappy...now that you've changed every possible aspect of the fork at the same time...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

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SHRED!
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hah, fair... I "know better" than to make a hundred adjustments at once. I was just going for a rebuild, but then it all went to heck. MRP ramp control setup failed, so now I gotta go back to volume spacers. Oh i've got the wrong oil... well ****. Plus upgrading to Debonair, and redoing valving...

Anyways, all said and done, rides GREAT!

Stiffer valving is way better for me. Out a bit more on rebound instead of 1 or 2 out from all in. Compression constantly full out and feeling good. 3 volume spacers. Still not using full travel though, 18mm short at 110psi / 25% sag. 100 PSI and 28% sag or so brought me to 10mm.

I suppose having that last 10mm for a mega hit isn't a bad idea. I cased a few drops and what not.

All in all though, don't fear the 5wt! Nor the valving swap!


Now the question is... do I remain with my RC Charger Damper... or pony up for the upgraded Charger 2.1 RC2 damper I can swap out to!
 
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