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How much travel makes a difference?

5842 Views 43 Replies 23 Participants Last post by  matt4x4
I can't find any good answers to this question, so I'm just going to ask here (sorry if it's been asked before).

For those of you who have both a newer Trail/Enduro bike (in the 140-160mm of F/R travel range) AND a DH bike or long travel Enduro (in the 180-200+mm F/R travel), can you talk about the differences between the two when riding? I know other things such as HTA, STA, wheelbase, chainstay length, etc can also come into play, but with today's Enduro bikes being so close to the same as a DH bike in that respect, it seems like the biggest difference is travel. Most Enduro bikes these days have HTA's literally the same as a DH bike (63-64*). Wheelbase is just a tad longer on a DH bike (10-20mm longer on a DH bike). Chainstay lengths within 5-10mm of each other. So very minor differences or the same.

So can you talk about how exactly that extra 20-40mm of travel front and back makes a difference. How does it effect jumping, drops, berms, chunky terrain, gnarly steep technical areas, etc. Is it a huge difference, moderate or very subtle? Is it more of a comfort thing? Or does it also allow you to ride over stuff you can't with lower travel bikes? I'm assuming it allows you to go much faster over much rougher terrain with less rider effort, is more forgiving, more comfort and less jarring on drops and hits?

But just not sure, since I'm crazy tall and can't just ask a buddy to try out a DH bike, haha. There are only a few people that ride DH bikes where I ride and they're all people in the 5'8" to 6' range. So their bike is crazy small for me and wouldn't give me a good idea.

I'm basically just wondering if adding 20mm more of front and rear travel will make much of a difference or not (like adding a Cascade Components Link to my current bike/Megatower, and letting out the fork from 160 to 180)? Or do you have to step up to a DH bike with a 40mm difference to notice any large changes in performance and comfort? I already adjusted my bike to the longer chainstay length from 435 to 445 and put it in the Low setting, and can't tell any difference at all. So it seems like tiny little changes of 10-20mm won't make that much of a difference? But maybe for travel it will?

I watch a lot of videos online of all sorts of riders and usually when someone is on a DH bike, they just look like they are SOOO much more at ease, nothing on the trail bothers the rider. They can go way faster overall with less rider effort, jump farther and higher easier. When they land from huge jumps or drops, it's soooo smooth and way less jarring than if they are riding a 140-160mm travel type bike. It looks like like the difference between riding an F1 car down a MTN and a Rally truck. A good rider could ride either bike down the same trail, but the Enduro/Trail bike looks like a LOT more work, rougher, harsh and requires much better riding skill. While the DH bike looks SOOO plush, easy, and just effortless while gliding down the same gnarly trails.
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I went from a 160/160 to 170/170 and u could feel a big difference, plusher over rough terrain.
Then i went to 180/180 and again big difference.

I have a coil fork and shock, so a 203 air fork might have more stiction, at least that's what I've been told.

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My enduro bike is an Evil Wreckoning LB with 170/161 F/R travel and a -1.5 degree angleset giving it a 64.6 head angle. It's not the latest model but the previous one.

My DH bike is an Intense M29 with 208mm F/R travel and a 62.65 HA

Although on paper the differences might be small, in real life it's significant. When I sit on the DH bike the front wheel looks (and is) wayyy out in front of me, like it's in the next zip code. Riding down steep tech trails it's a lot harder to go over the bars. Landing from jumps the DH bike is so forgiving, it feels like you can do no wrong. That extra couple of inches of suspension travel and DH appropriate damping does a ton. The bike is super-forgiving, which gives me the confidence to ride down trails that would've scared me off before.

I have a video on my IG of me sending it too deep on a hellacious drop-off and landing heavy maybe 15' below the take-off yet the bike didn't bottom out and I remember the landing being a muted "oomph" instead of a harsh "clack." I’ve added a screenshot below frozen at the point of impact.

After spending most of this summer riding park on the DH bike I went back to my Evil (considered a big bike in the trail bike world) after the parks closed for the season. I found myself smashing into stuff that I would've taken more gingerly before. The bike has held up fine, so I learned that I can ride it harder than I have in the past, but the impacts would've been more muted on the Intense. The margin for error is greater. It’s more stable and confidence-inspiring.
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Do you feel you you are out-riding the bike now? Like the shorter travel is holding you back?

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Do you feel you you are out-riding the bike now? Like the shorter travel is holding you back?

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Me?
Sure, or the OP ;)

I used to ride a 120mm bike, and once it gets too chunky you can tell when you've reached the limit.

But now with 140 back, 160 front, seems to go through a lot. But I'm not doing full on DH like you guys.

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Sure, or the OP ;)

I used to ride a 120mm bike, and once it gets too chunky you can tell when you've reached the limit.

But now with 140 back, 160 front, seems to go through a lot. But I'm not doing full on DH like you guys.

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In the park I reach my comfort limit on the enduro bike before I do on the DH bike. I look at some jumps and trails and say “hard pass” whereas on DH bike I’ll try it and see if I die.
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I have a 170/165 megatrail (64hta) (with MX mixed wheel conversion) with coil shock and 150/135 spitfire (66hta) with air shock. I feel a big difference between the two. The spitfire can get up to about 80% of speed and chunk of megatrail (non scientific estimate) and it starts feeling overwhelmed where the megatrail can still plow through the chunk. On the other hand the spitfire is a lot more agile and is fun to toss around. The coil vs air shocks help exaggerate this but a lot of the difference is still due to travel, kinematics, geo.
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I also have a 2015 Trek Remedy trail bike with 150/140 F/R travel and there’s just no comparison to the DH bike. Not even close.
I don't think this is something you can usefully isolate to travel. I have no doubt that a DH bike feels better than a 180mm bike on very rough trails but at least some of that difference is due to the dual crown fork and rear suspension that doesn't make many compromises in favor of pedalling.
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Hmm, some interesting info here, thanks for sharing. One thing I'm not hearing, that I need to understand, is HOW much more travel will make a bike feel a large difference in how it handles rough terrain, jumps, drops, etc. So I obviously know that there is a difference between a 150/160mmish travel bike and a 200mm travel DH bike. That's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking, HOW MUCH travel is needed to make a big difference in noticeable feel and performance? Is it 20mm or 40mm? Or do you just have to get a different bike to get that DH like performance?

Like my Megatower is a 160/160. It's sweet. I haven't even come close to exploring it's limits. But... I can tell it's never going to feel and perform more like a DH bike. But... I see that Cascade makes a link for the Megatower (among other bikes) and I have a shock that will allow me to use the full 180mm of travel on that link. Plus I have a Mezzer Pro fork. It's at 160, but I can easily let out the fork to 180. So I could potentially be running a 180/180 bike. And wondering if this is going to make my Megatower feel a LOT like a DH bike? Somewhat like a DH bike? Or still feel like my bike, just a bit more comfort and ability to suck up chunk, drops, etc? Or would I have to think about just buying a full time DH bike at some point if that is what I'm going for? I don't know when or if I'll ever be able to afford to buy another bike. These things are 5-8k a piece. So if at all possible, I'd like to just modify this bike to make it more like a DH bike. But not sure if spending money on the cascade link and/or buying a dual crown fork and running it at 190 is going to make my Megatower feel and perform pretty close to a full on DH bike or not?
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Well one is a DH bike and one is not, no amount of travel will change how they feel. Geometry and pedal efficiency are complexly different between these style of bikes. If the one feel as
Plush as a DH bike then it would not have the benefits of being not a DH bike.
It is more than just head angle and travel that separate a DH and Enduro bike. DH bikes also have lower anti squat for less pedal kickback on big hits and lower bottom brackets, pedaling over over tech is not as important, nor is climbing. DH bikes also have much slacker actual seat tube angles, which gets the seat further forward and out of the way. Downhill bikes serve a single purpose, go down technical and big hit stuff as quickly as possible.

It really comes down to horses for courses. If I am going down slow techy steep stuff, give me a trail/enduro bike with its suspension that is stiffer through the initial travel and moves around less at low speeds so you can basically track stand and look at your line, then drop in slowly. On a DH bike, the suspension moves so much, you drop in to slow and next thing you know, the front end comes stop as the wheel hits a big obstacle and the suspension cycles through most of the travel. DH bikes start to feel good at the speed a trail or enduro bike is hitting is getting towards its limits. This also ignores the additional stiffness from a dual crown fork.
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Whilst not having a DH bike, I've a 135/150 bike,
a 150/160 bike and a 154/170 bike. All XL as I'm 1.93m tall.

What I've found is
Geometry > travel quality > amount of travel when it comes to comfortable and composed riding.

150/160 bike has a coil so feels the smoothest at the rear. The 154/170 bike has a Push HC97 damper and feels best at the front. And whilst the 135/150 bike is am excelly all rounder, I feel it's limits / bottom it out more quickly, frequently and easily compared to the other two.

Just my own personal observations. Your experience may differ.
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20mm travel is slightly noticeable. The differences between DH bikes and Enduro bikes are tied to geo and travel, but I know a guy who is faster downhill on his Enduro bike than he is on his DH bike at some parks. So it really comes down to what you prefer. But if you aren't killing it on the nastiest DH trails, a DH bike isn't necessarily better.
I agree with the others. You wont make a dh bike out of an enduro bike. They are 2 different fish for all the reasons described above.

But you will close the gap.

To answer your travel question. 20mm makes a noticeable difference. Adding a 180mm fork to the front of your 160mm beast will give you slacker head angle and better gnar capability with very little dissadvantage. DO IT.

By adding more travel you essentially increase the max gnar level that you can ride comfortably. You shift the fun factor up a notch in track difficultness. The expense is playfullness. The way to bring back playfulness is to also put your bike on a diet. Shed a kg of weight and yourl have the playfulness you took away with adding 20mm more travel.

Now if you are not getting close to the limits of the 160mm bike then the extra grunt of the 200mm dh bike is probably wasted. Also it depends on the tracks you ride. DH bikes are only faster than enduro bikes in full gnar conditions. All of my local trails though steep technical are slow technical and are actually faster on an enduro bike. I don't need a dh bike locally. That said my 165/180 push 11-6/fox 36 slayer is pretty darn capable!

Also more travel will beat your body up less on those big dh shuttle days. 130mm guy will be in the hurt locker, 160mm guy will be feeling it, 180mm guy will know he has done some work but will still be feeling good, dh bike guy will be grinning.

Now if its shallow gradient and not much gnar,,, the hurt locker will be switched around.
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As usual with mtbr, by the time I find a post I'm interested in commenting on, there are already 50 posts. Everyone made good comments as I scanned through, but maybe another aspect not mentioned yet is what kind of crew are you riding with or what are your goals?

If you do small group rides with a few buddies and you're already the faster one, and not entering races, then you don't need the fastest thing. The fun part of mtb'g is to forget about work, life, etc and focus on something challenging for a couple hours. So if you're the faster one, then get the Enduro, ride with your buds and end up down the hill near the same time. If you're the less experienced one, often do shuttle runs or lift parks or want to race downhill, then get the downhill bike.

If you only do like 2 lift parks per year, then I'd think the enduro is more liveable for other rides, and just rent at the lift-parks.
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Furthermore, sometimes it's not about going faster. Sometimes having a DH bike will give you the confidence to ride a scary tech section that you weren't willing to try on a smaller bike. Then, after you've seen that you can ride the scary section, you're able to go back and ride it on your smaller bike.
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Spent a lot of time pushing 42 pound DH bikes up hills when I was younger. In order to buy one now I’d need to be within an hour or two of a really good lift service park to justify it.
Otherwise it’s just so much more practical to have a big 170mm travel enduro bike.
It is true though, nothing inspires more confidence on World Cup style downhills than a proper DH rig.
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