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grasso e lento
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been trying to teach one of my buddies to lean into turns rather than turn into turns. He starts to do it then gets in this really strange position and tightens up. I can tell that he isn't comfortable as of yet so I have had him follow me thru a turn, watched him take the turn and pointed things out and I have also left him on his own..... How should I proceed ?


-Dude
 

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stand on the outside corner of the turn and as he gets ready to turn, PUSH HIM, sending him into a horizontal trackstand. Then yell at him saying, "I said lean! Why don't you f***ing listen to me you stupid piece of s***. Now get up and lean!!!"

or you could practice outside the trail and have him build up confidence on the street or his driveway.
 

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Um...maybe he's just peaked at his riding ability already. If he's uncomfortable, he'll just have to commit and do it or you'll be waiting at the end of the trail for him longer. Plus, lean angle increases with speed, maybe he's going to slow.
 

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suck it trebeK
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Take him on banked turns, if you have some on your local trails. I found that helped me get the hang of it, and more confidence to do it on more difficult corners.
 

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Does he only have problems on the trail or in general?

Have him practice at the park on a grassy field, that way he won't be so fearful of a hard fall.

Do slalom manuevers also helps. He can does repeat the slalom moves in parking lot.
 

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speed dictates whether to lean or not

Dude said:
I have been trying to teach one of my buddies to lean into turns rather than turn into turns. He starts to do it then gets in this really strange position and tightens up. I can tell that he isn't comfortable as of yet so I have had him follow me thru a turn, watched him take the turn and pointed things out and I have also left him on his own..... How should I proceed ?

-Dude
When im going slow ill lean the bike over but my body stays vertical. As my speed increases the degree of which i lean WITH the bike increases. Make sure theyre hovering over the bike with legs and arms bend and not stiff/straight and the pedals are level with the alpha/favored foot forward.
 

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The Ancient One
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If he's turning, he's leaning.

Dude said:
I have been trying to teach one of my buddies to lean into turns rather than turn into turns. He starts to do it then gets in this really strange position and tightens up. I can tell that he isn't comfortable as of yet so I have had him follow me thru a turn, watched him take the turn and pointed things out and I have also left him on his own..... How should I proceed ?

-Dude
You can't turn on a bike without leaning into the turn. That means that the combined center of gravity of the rider and the bike has to be to the inside of the turn. How far inside depends only on the speed and the radius of the turn--not on technique.

Now you can lean the bike more and your body less or vice versa, but you can't turn without leaning.

Furthermore you can't start a turn by leaning; you have to countersteer slightly. Everyone who can ride a bike does this whether they know it or not.

So all turns involve both steering and leaning.
 

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PickledFish said:
stand on the outside corner of the turn and as he gets ready to turn, PUSH HIM, sending him into a horizontal trackstand. Then yell at him saying, "I said lean! Why don't you f***ing listen to me you stupid piece of s***. Now get up and lean!!!"
YES DRILL SERGEANT!!!

It sounds like he's just not comfortable and afraid he's going to wipe out.

It's probably just a matter of having him practice somewhere where he can feel safe even if he falls like on a grassy field.
 

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Ned Overend

I was at the book store a couple of weeks ago and I picked up this book by Ned and randomly opened it to a page on turning. It really helped me with turning. You know, I think I'm going to go get that book. So you get the idea.
 

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i didn't even know that learning to lean even has to be done. i guess i just assumed it came naturally as it did for me when i was just learning to ride a bike.

i guess i just liked going fast and figured out it was the only way to turn while goin fast...
 

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occupation : Foole
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Steve from JH said:
Furthermore you can't start a turn by leaning; you have to countersteer slightly. Everyone who can ride a bike does this whether they know it or not.
YUP !!!! This is true...although everyone I've told this to in the past looks at me like I'm crazy....hehheh (that's besides the point :) )
 

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Confidence

Dude said:
I have been trying to teach one of my buddies to lean into turns rather than turn into turns. He starts to do it then gets in this really strange position and tightens up. I can tell that he isn't comfortable as of yet so I have had him follow me thru a turn, watched him take the turn and pointed things out and I have also left him on his own..... How should I proceed ?

-Dude
I agree completely with jrm. What I think you're dealing with here is someone who is afraid to ride fast through turns, rather than failing to use a particular technique.

I don't think you can teach confidence, it follows from succeeding at easy stuff, then moving up. My way of getting to confident is to repeat things until they become almost boring: have your friend go around curves at a speed where he can stay loose. You go ahead and watch (but he can do this himself by how he feels). If he starts to get into that "strange position", it's because he's pushing too hard and tightening up out of fear, IMO. Have him go back and ride it again, slower. Speed will come naturally.

One of the best things that happened to me last year was riding with a friend who was asthmatic. He was *really* slow. In order to keep from riding away from him, I put him in front of me. To keep me from getting bored, I starting riding the craziest lines I could come up with, at dog-slow speed. It did wonders for my confidence at higher speed, let alone my ability to get up and over rocks in the trail.

Sounds like you are a pretty good friend. Good luck.

Walt
 

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grasso e lento
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks

Thanks for the suggestions.

After reading the replies it becomes more clear that it is confidence more rather than technique.

-Dude
 

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I like PickledFish's suggestion. I think I'll try that whenever I have a new guy riding...hehehe :D. Seriously though, like everyone else says, its a matter of gaining confidence. First, find out if he's more afraid of pavement or grass. Pavement has better grip so you're less likely to fall but grass is softer. Then, I'd do circle and slalom drills. Heck, if he really wants to go faster but can't have him spend $40 on some leg and arm protection and then practice on grass. He'll look like a dork but it does wonders for his confidence. That's how I learned to go faster. Sure, some people laugh at you but the key is learning just what it takes to actually crash. I learned that I could go way faster than I ever thought possible.
 

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noMAD man
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Put 'em on a dirt motorcycle.

Dude said:
I have been trying to teach one of my buddies to lean into turns rather than turn into turns. He starts to do it then gets in this really strange position and tightens up. I can tell that he isn't comfortable as of yet so I have had him follow me thru a turn, watched him take the turn and pointed things out and I have also left him on his own..... How should I proceed ?

-Dude
I haven't even looked at the other posts on the response to this question, but I can tell you that without a doubt you learn to lean on a motorcycle very quickly. Even though one has an engine and one doesn't, it is the same dynamic because on a bike, you are the engine. This is a constant argument at our shop because I understand the dyanmics of leaning the bike rather than relying on the geometry of the bike as delivered from the manufacturer. IMHO there is way too much made of the inherent designed-in geometry vs. the ability of the rider to steer the bike by leaning and using his body location over the bike. Obviously there are very XC oriented geometries available to certain frame designs that would void what I stated earlier, but a slack geometry doesn't always mean a "bad" thing.
 

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Make sure his outside pedal is down (at 6 o'clock). This will help encourage a stable lean.

Dude said:
I have been trying to teach one of my buddies to lean into turns rather than turn into turns. He starts to do it then gets in this really strange position and tightens up. I can tell that he isn't comfortable as of yet so I have had him follow me thru a turn, watched him take the turn and pointed things out and I have also left him on his own..... How should I proceed ?

-Dude
 

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"El Whatever"
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All what they said and....

Make him practice "8" figures on the parking lot. Nothing better to learn turning to both sides. Most of us have "fast turning side" and a "slow turning side". So the 8's help you out to correct this.

Not only seems like you're a good friend but a talented rider too... if you were not that good you already would have told your friend all of these things as you had to learnt them somewhere sometime and practice about them. When you get your skills right off from your DNA, you generally wonder yourself how to explain things to others because they're so natural to you.
 
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