[rockcrusher]

Believe it or not people still don't have definitive proof of how bikes work. We all can ride them but do you actually know how they work?

This video I saw on Radavist first is a pretty great explanation of how they currently think they work and a good example of why if you have ever gotten something stuck on your bike that prevented the bars from turning to one side or had a bearing fail in your headset that you had a hard time riding your bike.

A little long but worth the watch:

 

[looks easy from here]

I watched that yesterday. Then today while fiddling with fit on a new bike I spent some time focusing on my steering. I had no problem turning without counter steering first. I think he's just not a very good rider. $0.02

 

[Monty219]

I watched that yesterday. Then today while fiddling with fit on a new bike I spent some time focusing on my steering. I had no problem turning without counter steering first. I think he's just not a very good rider. $0.02

My hunch is a good rider could compensate in various ways to not crash. but the video demonstrates the general way all 2 wheel vehicles of this orientation work. Lately i have been thinking a lot about weighting the front wheel to track a solid path and let my rear wheel drift through turns. Sometimes in these situations (when both wheels are drifting?) a slight countersteer is required to not highside, similar to catching an edge when skiing or kayaking. At least that’s my best understanding of what is going on at this point

 

[Travis1911]

If you've ever been on a motorcycle you'll know all about counter steering. When riding slow it's not as noticeable. You feel like you can still turn your bars right to turn right, but like in mountain biking we probably lean the bike over or counter steer slightly to initiate a turn. When you are at highway speed on a motorcycle, there ain't no way you can turn that bike without counter steering. There is so much mass and centripetal force keeping that wheel in plane, the only way to turn right is to press the right side of the bar away from you (turn the bars left). As soon as you stop pressing, you bike snaps back upright.

 

[Mk3Rider]

Wait until you learn about trail braking...

Approach corner hot, use front brake only, this will cause two things of great benefit to happen:

• fork compression to change head angle allowing for an easier turn in
• weighted front tire cause tire deformation and can/will provide more available traction.

I usually stay on the front brake until I get the bike to lean 1/4 of the intended lean angle for mountain bike. Supersport on the track, almost until the knee slider is on the pavement.

Every time you trail brake a corner that can support it, you shave off time. Using the first 1/3 of the corner as the brake zoom. And you will tend to hold more momentum / speed thru the corner. Keep in mind MTB is on varying surfaces and not all corners this practice will work with.

End of a track day on the motorbike, my triceps are sometimes sore from all the counter steering done for the day.
As for counter steering, ride on smooth surface in a straight line. If you can ride no handed, even better. Take your pointer finger of each hand and press the end of each bar forward very gently. You will notice as you cause the gyro to get upset, the bike will lean the direction the bar was pressed and then auto correct bar position. This is the only way a two wheeled device turns.

 

[Travis1911]

Wait until you learn about trail braking...

Approach corner hot, use front brake only, this will cause two things of great benefit to happen:

• fork compression to change head angle allowing for an easier turn in
• weighted front tire cause tire deformation and can/will provide more available traction.

I usually stay on the front brake until I get the bike to lean 1/4 of the intended lean angle for mountain bike. Supersport on the track, almost until the knee slider is on the pavement.

Every time you trail brake a corner that can support it, you shave off time. Using the first 1/3 of the corner as the brake zoom. And you will tend to hold more momentum / speed thru the corner. Keep in mind MTB is on varying surfaces and not all corners this practice will work with.

End of a track day on the motorbike, my triceps are sometimes sore from all the counter steering done for the day.
As for counter steering, ride on smooth surface in a straight line. If you can ride no handed, even better. Take your pointer finger of each hand and press the end of each bar forward very gently. You will notice as you cause the gyro to get upset, the bike will lean the direction the bar was pressed and then auto correct bar position. This is the only way a two wheeled device turns.

I really should try this. I'm usually afraid of using the front brake coming into a turn for fear of breaking traction. I guess I usually don't wash out in the first portion of the turn. Usually the apex or after.

 

[Mk3Rider]

@Travis1911, perhaps try longer lighter braking to begin with. I am off the brakes by the time the apex appears.

Trail braking motorcycle meaning and technique explained for cornering

Although motorcycle trail braking is mostly related to road racers and performance rider, this braking technique is important for safe cornering at a safe speed

www.bikeshala.com

Loosing traction after the apex, maybe try to stand the bike frame up more and move your shoulders / upper body past the center line of the frame?

Here is some Sheldon Brown to read also:

Braking and Turning Your Bicycle

Good braking and turning technique can save your life!

sheldonbrown.com

 

[zvonler]

Also a motorcycle trackday rider/racer/instructor here and I agree about all the benefits of trail braking, and that you can get some of them when mountain biking. The way I think of the goal is that you should trail brake hard enough to settle your fork where you want it in the corner, then as you turn-in you ease off the brakes so that the cornering force is what keeps the fork compressed. The hard part on MTB is the braking zones can be so short that the timing is trickier.

 

[Travis1911]

Okay, so you both are saying that I should use my front brake to compress/weight my front tire the desired amount, then as I'm starting to turn my fork is already compressed the desired amount so it stays at this happy medium through the turn? I mean, it makes sense to stop diving/bobbing when in the corner. Sounds really tricky to time correctly. Darn winter. Now I want to ride my bike.

 

[zvonler]

Okay, so you both are saying that I should use my front brake to compress/weight my front tire the desired amount, then as I'm starting to turn my fork is already compressed the desired amount so it stays at this happy medium through the turn? I mean, it makes sense to stop diving/bobbing when in the corner. Sounds really tricky to time correctly. Darn winter. Now I want to ride my bike.

Yes, that's the theory and it definitely is challenging especially when you're riding over loose or bumpy terrain. The natural way to ease into it is to find a smooth flat corner that you definitely have to brake to make, then work up to braking as hard and as late as possible but releasing the brakes before the turn-in point, and then work on easing off the brakes past the turn in to load the tire in the corner. What you'll find is that eventually there's not a down-up-down of the fork as you go into the corner but just a down.

For me on MTB it's a lot more frequent that I use a tap one of the brakes mid-corner when I'm trying to tighten my line instead of trail braking the entry but it's essentially the same idea of loading the fork and then transitioning from braking load to cornering.

 

[Travis1911]

Riddle me this one. When I was out riding before winter I had been experimenting with corners. I know a lot of corners out here I have to weight the outside of the tire to give grip. The way I would do this is leaning my bike over but keep my body more or less vertical (like for a flat corner). I had been trying to initiate the corners two ways.

I would lean my body into the inside of the corner to start then lean my bike over and stay more or less upright throughout the turn.

Or I would keep my body centered over the bike and lean the bike over as needed for corner.

First option actually felt more natural to me. Even though I'm technically weighting the inside of the bike on the initiation of the corner. Maybe set up my body for a better position in the corner?

Second option felt fine, but I would get the feeling sometimes the I'm locked in the corner and forced to ride it out. Almost as if I didn't get the lean right I would run off the edge of the corner.