[FloridaFish]

I was at a bike shop this weekend and saw some Devinci bikes with horst link suspension designs. After asking about the bikes and if Devinci licenses the linkage from Specialized I was told that the patent had run out and Specialized no longer had control of the design anymore. The shop employee then went on and mentioned that Scott is also selling their Horst link bikes in the US now too.

So was I just getting BS or did this actually occur and the Horst link is up for grabs???


(yes I've searched around a bit, if this has been covered I missed it)

 

[crisillo]

As far as I know the patent still holds...however Devinci has sold horst link bikes in Canada for a long time.. I think they just weren't allowed to do it on the US...maybe they are paying for the bikes they sell on US soil?

 

[Bikinfoolferlife]

Not as far as I've seen; to my understanding Specialized successfully defended Scott's suit and Scott is not releasing the Genius in the US now. This is fairly recent http://bikemag.com/news/newsarchive/012406_scott/. I'm not sure how long Specialized can control the patent, though.

 

[timehoc]

Not as far as I've seen; to my understanding Specialized successfully defended Scott's suit and Scott is not releasing the Genius in the US now. This is fairly recent http://bikemag.com/news/newsarchive/012406_scott/. I'm not sure how long Specialized can control the patent, though.

14 years for design patents.

http://law.freeadvice.com/intellectual_property/patent_law/patent_duration.htm

 

[DeeEight]

US Patents vary in life with the type of patent they are and whether the assignee (that's who owns the patent) remembers to pay the extension/maintenance fees or not to keep it valid past the basic time period (which can also vary, I think the mininum is 8 years to a maximum of 20 years, but you have to pay maintenance fees every 4 years starting at the 8 year mark). The patent for the horst link (#5,899,480) IS still valid I think though.

Now as to devinci...the horst-link patent is ONLY a US Patent. its not enforcable in asia, europe or canada, and Devince doesn't actually license the horst-patent anyways, they license the ellsworth ICT patent which was filed as both a US and International patent.

Scott IS selling many models in the usa but I don't think the horst-link bikes are amongst them as Specialized has refused to license the patent to Scott last I checked.

 

[FloridaFish]

Huh, thanks for the info.........I'm thinking that the suspension design is the ellsworth type. After looking at the Ellsworth ICT system I really can't tell the difference, but I'm assuming that it's in there somewhere.

 

[rzozaya1969]

Huh, thanks for the info.........I'm thinking that the suspension design is the ellsworth type. After looking at the Ellsworth ICT system I really can't tell the difference, but I'm assuming that it's in there somewhere.

I think that the HL licence is due in a short time, maybe 2 more years or so, but I'm not sure.

ICT depends on the HL, and also on the position of the rocker, but not sure how.

 

[Rivet]

US Patents vary in life with the type of patent they are and whether the assignee (that's who owns the patent) remembers to pay the extension/maintenance fees or not to keep it valid past the basic time period (which can also vary, I think the mininum is 8 years to a maximum of 20 years, but you have to pay maintenance fees every 4 years starting at the 8 year mark). The patent for the horst link (#5,899,480) IS still valid I think though.

Now as to devinci...the horst-link patent is ONLY a US Patent. its not enforcable in asia, europe or canada, and Devince doesn't actually license the horst-patent anyways, they license the ellsworth ICT patent which was filed as both a US and International patent.

Scott IS selling many models in the usa but I don't think the horst-link bikes are amongst them as Specialized has refused to license the patent to Scott last I checked.

Interesting thing about the HL design is that Fuji is the ONLY large manufacturer Specialized lets use the patent, coincidentally Fuji has produced a Roubaix model road bike for many years and Specialized has recently began producng a Roubaix road bike also, maybe a little deal happening there. Specialized gets to use the name and Fuji gets to use the HL.

 

[FoShizzle]

horst links suck anyway....just a bunch of theoretical mumbo jumbo that amounts to nothing but marketing hype.

 

[Bikinfoolferlife]

I agree, an over hyped design for sure.

 

[Homebrew]

I agree, an over hyped design for sure.

I agree, single pivots are waaaay over hyped.

 

[Johnny Hair Boy]

Horst links are the best design ever, even the all mighty Dave Turner said so before he made an ass of himself and switch to a cheezy faux bar.

 

[FoShizzle]

I agree, single pivots are waaaay over hyped.

i agree...single pivots are overhyped as well but nonehtheless, far superior to horst links and VPP etc.....the only design really that addresses flaws found in other linkages is the older URT designs. I predict it will make a comeback once people realize the in fact it is better than any of todays lame linkages

 

[Brown_Teeth]

Indeed the i-drive URT is a superior climbing design IMHO, even with a lousy shock if your a spinner its way better than faux or single pivot. YMMV though

 

[rzozaya1969]

Interesting thing about the HL design is that Fuji is the ONLY large manufacturer Specialized lets use the patent, coincidentally Fuji has produced a Roubaix model road bike for many years and Specialized has recently began producng a Roubaix road bike also, maybe a little deal happening there. Specialized gets to use the name and Fuji gets to use the HL.

Check your facts.... Specialized licenses the horst link to several manufacturers (Titus is one of them). er... OK, sorry, I reread your original mail, but I don't think of Fuji as a large manufacturer, at least, not in the sense as Scott USA is. I don't think that Specialized sees Fuji as a direct competitor (as well as other boutique or smaller builders), so it licence that design to them.

Anyway, HL, DW, VPP, SP and whatever are good if the overal frame and bike design is good.

 

[Johnny Hair Boy]

URT usless rear travel. Sorry I couldn't resist, I have owned a few and they sucked bad, way to much unsuspended mas particularly when standing. Single pivots are ok but not as good as a 4 bar.

 

[lebikerboy]

Norco (Canada) used to license the Horst Link design from Specialized. Their Canadian sold bikes still use it however, I've heard Specialized pulled the rights to use it in the US market. Just checked the Norco website for the US and it still show HL designs.

 

[Digitaljs]

KHS uses the horst link also.

 

[FloridaFish]

Oh boy, I was hoping this wouldn't turn into a linkage design pissing contest..........

I have to admit that I get a little caught up in the details of linkage designs, but I think that's to be expected from an engineer.

 

[FoShizzle]

Indeed the i-drive URT is a superior climbing design IMHO, even with a lousy shock if your a spinner its way better than faux or single pivot. YMMV though

agreed. to be honest, i have found the classic URT design to have less bob than my hardtail. I know it sounds crazy but its true. I am actually considering talking to a custom builder to have a Ti URT FS frame designed. I am confident it will be worth the money.

you couldnt pay me to ride a lame horst link bike again.