[ozzybmx]

These 2 braking systems seem very similar, V2 have 2 massive cylinders , M4 have 4 smaller..... but similar braking power ... Yes ?

Is there a weight penalty going for 1 over the other ?

If running both sets on braided hoses and floating rotors whats the noticable difference ?

Thanks

 

[Stealth1972]

Anyone???

I'm curious too. I'm on the fence on getting the X2 or the M4. I currently run the Stroker Trails on my Nomad so I'm thinking the X2s will be fine, but maybe it should be the M4s? Any X2 riders out there? M4 riders?

 

[Nevegal]

The V2 are super strong downhill brakes. They are more powerful than the M6 brakes that Hope made until 6 months ago. The M6 had 6 pistons per caliper and were very strong but the V2 are even stronger. The V2 weigh more than the M4 and have a very thick, beefy caliper.

The M4 are very strong brakes as well but are more all mountain / trail oriented. I have Tech M4 brakes on my XCL with 183mm rotors and they are wonderful for me (and I am 220 lbs. in riding gear). For all around braking and powerful braking with great brake modulation and feel you cannot beat the M4. But they are not really made for long downhill runs where the V2 are. I have a year old pair of Moto V2 brakes on my Chumba EVO trail bike and I love those brakes but they are way more brake than I need for my local trails.

The V2 and M4 both share the same lever now so only the caliper is different. Also the V2 uses heavier duty rotors. According to Hope's claimed weight info the full Tech V2 setup with braided hose, V2 floating rotor, mounting adapter and all mounting bolts totals 606g per brake. The same setup on the Tech M4 with regular floating rotors is 430g per brake. Also, the optional 203mm V2 vented rotor is 297g by itself if you were curious.

The X2 is a great brake, very capable and great modulation. The M4 is the same feel with 2 extra pistons per caliper (more power) and wider pads to cover the extra pistons.

For the Nomad a great choice would be the M4 up front and X2 in the rear. They both have the same Tech lever now and I set up a Motolite with the same setup last week.

If anyone needs any I currently have Tech M4 and Tech X2 brakes in stock. Will have the Tech V2 in a few days. Let me know if you'd like any. [email protected]

 

[A MAN CALLED HORSE]

If you check this thread out it shows the weight of Tech M4 with a braided hose and 183 rotor and postmount adaptor (add a bit more for bolts and larger disc)http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=471877

The only weight difference between these and the V2 is the extra in the caliper and about 30g between the two 203mm discs. The V2 floating rotor weighs about the same as an average all steel rotor- approx 200g.

Sicklines has some weights listed but i don't think anyone has submitted the Tech V2 although this will give you some idea. http://www.sicklines.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3994

You could run the Tech m4 on a Nomad with a 183/160 setup no problem for general riding. Great brakes.

 

[rodel]

anyone know if the Tech V2 rotors and the 'saw' 2pc rotors are interchangeable?

 

[SteveUK]

"anyone know if the Tech V2 rotors and the 'saw' 2pc rotors are interchangeable?"

They are not. The V2 has a very broad brake-track in comparison.

 

[ozzybmx]

The V2 are super strong downhill brakes. They are more powerful than the M6 brakes that Hope made until 6 months ago. The M6 had 6 pistons per caliper and were very strong but the V2 are even stronger. The V2 weigh more than the M4 and have a very thick, beefy caliper.

The M4 are very strong brakes as well but are more all mountain / trail oriented. I have Tech M4 brakes on my XCL with 183mm rotors and they are wonderful for me (and I am 220 lbs. in riding gear). For all around braking and powerful braking with great brake modulation and feel you cannot beat the M4. But they are not really made for long downhill runs where the V2 are. I have a year old pair of Moto V2 brakes on my Chumba EVO trail bike and I love those brakes but they are way more brake than I need for my local trails.

The V2 and M4 both share the same lever now so only the caliper is different. Also the V2 uses heavier duty rotors. According to Hope's claimed weight info the full Tech V2 setup with braided hose, V2 floating rotor, mounting adapter and all mounting bolts totals 606g per brake. The same setup on the Tech M4 with regular floating rotors is 430g per brake. Also, the optional 203mm V2 vented rotor is 297g by itself if you were curious.

The X2 is a great brake, very capable and great modulation. The M4 is the same feel with 2 extra pistons per caliper (more power) and wider pads to cover the extra pistons.

For the Nomad a great choice would be the M4 up front and X2 in the rear. They both have the same Tech lever now and I set up a Motolite with the same setup last week.

If anyone needs any I currently have Tech M4 and Tech X2 brakes in stock. Will have the Tech V2 in a few days. Let me know if you'd like any. [email protected]

Thanks nevegal, thats the info i was looking for ! also PM sent.

 

[dropadrop]

I just got a spreadsheet from Hope regarding the weights, and they list the V2 with a 203mm rotor and all other bits and pieces at 514g, 629 if you want the vented rotor.

According to the same spreadsheet the Tech M4 is 466g, and actually heavier then the V2 if you add a braided hose and count the differences in rotor weights. I emailed Hope and they confirmed, the V2 caliper is lighter then the M4.

So I'm thinking of getting V2's with 183mm rotors as I had a real hassle with my M4's last time I had them (impossible to get the pistons pushing straight).

 

[Jeepnut22]

So from what I read above, the V2s are way more brake then one would need for regular XC/AM riding.

What's wrong with having more braking/stopping power on tap then the trails you ride dictate? Granted there is the added weight, but the more stopping power the better, no?

Get in an unexptected tough jam, more brake would/could be a chicklet saver...

 

[CaveGiant]

This is one of the most powerful brakes out there, only topped by Formula the One, and Shimano Saint.

You can never have too much power.

I decided this after flying towards a barb wire fence at 20mph and stopping 20cm of a collision.

Shimano XT sold, Formula the One fitted.

Brake weight it stupid, I don't who can tell the difference of 30g static weight on a bike.

 

[dropadrop]

Brake weight it stupid, I don't who can tell the difference of 30g static weight on a bike.

Once you start to add those bits up it can end up being pounds instead of grams. However I do agree that I prefer to not compromise performance and function very much to lose weight.

However I do think that there can also be a difference in how the power is delivered. The M4 (and Magura brakes I've tested) had great modulation compared to (for example) Juicy 7's. When you are riding on slippery steep trails with lots of roots and rocks you want to be able to deliver just the right amount of braking power - not as much as possible ('cause your tire traction will never keep up).

But I can't help but get the feeling most of the people who say the V2's are too powerful might have used them with 203mm rotors. Seeing as the weight difference will be practically moot comparing to the M4's I'm very tempted to get V2's and 183mm rotors.

 

[A MAN CALLED HORSE]

i run my tech v2's with 180 rotors and i wouldn't consider using anything else. They come on gradually and the power builds really sweetly, they can be quite delicate if needed, no way they are too much brake.

 

[dopaminer]

Great thread. Just ordered an Uzzi and I`m obsessing over the brakes. Definitely AM riding, with the occasional lift-serviced ride. 88kg/190lbs w/o gear. I`m debating between Hope or Formula.

Earlier, Nevegal said:

"For the Nomad a great choice would be the M4 up front and X2 in the rear. They both have the same Tech lever now and I set up a Motolite with the same setup last week."

I was thinking of doing the same thing, with a mix of V2/M4 Hopes (same levers) or The One 10/R1 Formulas (very similar levers). Does anyone have a comment on this?

Dropadrop, are you certain about those weights? Hope really said the M4 caliper is heavier than the V2??? I thought the V2 was a gravity-only beast!

The Formulas are super light compared to the Hopes, but almost 2x the price....

 

[SteveUK]

I was thinking of doing the same thing, with a mix of V2/M4 Hopes (same levers) or The One 10/R1 Formulas (very similar levers). Does anyone have a comment on this?

I run a 203mm V2 & 183mm M4 on both my bikes and wouldn't swap it for anything. The adjustments on the lever are good enough and easy enough to tone both calipers down to be a bit more subtle, althoughh the Tech M4 has retained the remarkable modulation that made the Mono M4 such a popular brake. To be honest, I could probably run 183mm V2 with a 160mm M4, but I'm looking at the sharp end of £200 to make that switch on both bikes. Maybe after the summer (in the Alps!!)...

 

[dopaminer]

Whoa - that`s the same setup I am considering. Do you do much climbing? I will definitely be doing 50/50 climb/descend for most of my riding. Just wondering if these Hopes are damned heavy...
And could you comment on the relative weights of the v2 vs. m4 systems? I keep finding/hearing conflicting stats. MBUK has the M4 at 500+g just sligtly lighter than the V2; other sources say 400g range; Dropadrop above says Hope told him the M4 is heavier!

Thanks

 

[tiSS'er]

Whoa - that`s the same setup I am considering. Do you do much climbing? I will definitely be doing 50/50 climb/descend for most of my riding. Just wondering if these Hopes are damned heavy...
And could you comment on the relative weights of the v2 vs. m4 systems? I keep finding/hearing conflicting stats. MBUK has the M4 at 500+g just sligtly lighter than the V2; other sources say 400g range; Dropadrop above says Hope told him the M4 is heavier!

Thanks

The V2s are heavier...primarily due to the heavy rotors. I am running 203/183 V2s on my big bike and they are fantastic. I am running 183/160 on my 5 SPOT and they are as much as I need.

Either way, the new Tech lever is matched by no one, the adjustments work, and the levers feel great. Pad wear is great, though I have had some (read annoying, but not terrible) noise issues with the stock pads. I have changed my M4s to a carbonized ceramic and the V2s to Goodridge metallics. The M4s are dead silent now, and the V2s are yet untested. Either way, the noise issue is moot as the brakes work so stupid good. I have yet to get either set to fade.

 

[dropadrop]

Dropadrop, are you certain about those weights?

Hard to be certain when I never held a V2 (or Tech M4) in my hand. These values are directly from the spreadsheet Hope sent me:

Tech V2:
Includes Tech lever, post caliper, adaptor, braided hose, 203 floating rotor
514g (above with vented rotor 629g)

Tech M4:
Includes Tech lever, post caliper, adaptor, std. hose & small rotor (160 or 183mm)
466g

I am assuming the M4 has been weighed with the 183mm rotor as otherwise that does not make sence...

There is also weights for rotors:

Floating Rotor - 183 - 146g
Floating V2 Rotor - 183 - 180g
Floating V2 Rotor - 203 - 208g

Which means the V2 set with a 183mm rotor should weigh 486g vs. 466g for the M4. As far as I can understand this also means the V2 set without the rotor is lighter (not useful information though, as you will anyway be running the heavier rotor with the V2).

Now my confusion came from the fact that the document states the braided hose will ad 90g to the weight of the front brake. I asked Hope for clarification, and they said that indeed, the V2 will weigh less then the M4 if you take a M4 with braided hose. Personally I found the 90g to be quite a lot, but you just need 20g added weight from the hose to already be at an equal weight (V2 comes with braided hose as standard).

The document also lists separate weights for Lever, braided hose & caliper. Under V2 the weight is 310g. M4 is listed with standard hose at 274g which does not quite fit in with the previous measurements (unless there is a difference with adapters which I don't believe). However if the braided hose where really to add 90g to the weight the V2 would still be lighter.

But I'm not convinced the braided hose adds so much weight. Sicklines has a measurement of Tech M4's at 278g which is pretty spot on with Hopes claimed weight. I have submitted weights of my previous Mono M4's (with braided hoses) to sicklines and they where 287g. Is the tech lever lighter or heavier? How about the new caliper? Hard to see how you could come up with a 90g increase for the braided hose...

Any more clear? Not for me, but at least this should help you try to make more assumptions like me.

edit: seems the tech lever is 21g heavier then the previous one, so that already puts the braided hose weight difference to 30g. Anyone know if the new caliper is heavier or lighter?

edit2: according to Hopes own pages the Mono M4 with standard hose is 36g lighter then the Tech M4, so that would mean the braided hose adds about 45g. Anyway, I believe that if you take the M4 with braided hose you will be really close to the V2 weight.

 

[dopaminer]

Nice work, Dropadrop.

You guys are a wealth of info; I`m so glad I found this thread.

I live in Japan and my yen is strong is right now - CRC has the M4 and the V2 stoopidly cheap right now... I can feel Formula falling back, Hope is pulling away....

Could somebody give me some color commentary on floating vs standard rotors for the Hopes? I realize the floating are cheaper. Any other pro/cons either way? Heard rumors of the rotors hitting the frame. I don`t really like the look of the floating...too busy.

 

[SteveUK]

Could somebody give me some color commentary on floating vs standard rotors for the Hopes? I realize the floating are cheaper. Any other pro/cons either way? Heard rumors of the rotors hitting the frame. I don`t really like the look of the floating...too busy.

The rivets on the floating rotors are known to catch the fork legs with some hubs. I don't know of anyone having problems with the rivets when using Hope hubs, but numerous people with I9 and Chris King hubs have reported clearance issues. There seems to be a little more room to play with on Marzocchi (PM) forks, but Fox 36s turn up regularly in the "my floating rotor won't fit!!" threads. Using a standard rotor removes the problem altogether.

 

[midlifechrisis]

Well bugger me, dropadrop- if you haven't done exactly what I've been doing today while I was supposed to be working. I sent the same email question to Hope & got the same tech sheet in reply this morning. I've also been doing the calculations & come to the same conclusions as you. 183 rotors F+R with braided hoses & the V2 seems to come out lighter than the M4 & the same price.

Can anyone think of a good reason to go for the M4 over the V2?

I also read somewhere that the V2 pads last ages (maybe because of the extra track width). I'll be using them for anything from XC to Welsh trail centres. I weigh 16 stone kitted up & ride a Ventana El Ciclon, with DHX5 Air shock & Float 140 forks.