[jduffett]

I've got an '07 Giant Reign X1, which came equipped with Juicy 5s (185F/160R). This is basically a do everything bike for me from Ontario XC to Whistler DH (though I do have a lighter XC bike for when the quick and nimble mood strikes). I am pretty light (~140lb) and have rarely found the Juicys lacking in terms of performance. I did decide to upgrade however, and splurged on a set of Hope Tech M4s in 183/160. What I received, however, was a front M4 and a rear X2. I know some guys are running this combo with no complaints, and I'm tempted to just keep what I received. Does anybody think I'd be downgrading in terms of performance on the rear brake with the X2 vs the old Juicy? Regardless, I'm comfortable it would be fine for 75% of my riding, but I'd rather not be giving up any performance for DH use... I guess if I find the rear weak I could go 183 all round?

 

[007]

I haven't tried it first hand, but this is the exact set-up I am hoping to get in the very near future. M4 front X2 rear. I ride "All Mountain" (whatever that means).

 

[Dr Thunder]

I ran that set up for some time on my 6 inch bike, albeit with a previous generation of Hopes (Mono M4 front and a Mono Mini rear). I went to a 183 rotor in the rear, and eventually switched to an M4 in the rear as well, which I've stuck with (currently running Tech M4s). An M4 in the rear is definitely more powerful, and I think the modulation is a bit better too. However, I'm also 200-210 geared up. At 140, the difference between an M4 or an X2 in the rear might not be terribly noticeable, and you'll save a bit of weight to boot. Bear in mind, however, that the Hopes will feel different from Juicys. Hopes are plenty powerful, but they don't have the "on/off" switch feeling of Juicys. What they do have is lots of modulation!

 

[jduffett]

Just as an update, I did get the M4 183 F / X2 160 R combination. In general, they have been great. I just got back from a week in BC, and I did however run into a few instances where fade was an issue. The main place I ran into problems was at Mt Seven, though there was some noticeable fade on some other long downhill rides as well. In all cases, it was not fade to the point of no brakes, but fade to the point of requiring 2 fingers instead of 1. Some of that is arms/hands getting a bit pumped too, but in any case if I was riding these places all the time, I'd bump up the rotor sizes and maybe opt for an M4 in the rear as well. As it stands, I may pick up a 203mm rotor and some adapters so I can run 203F/183R when the terrain calls for it. I never really had noticeable issues with my Juicys under similar conditions, however I was always 2-fingering them since I could never get my cockpit setup to my satisfaction with those brakes and my old X7 shifters such that I could 1-finger brake. Even if the performance of the Hopes was inferior (and I don't feel it is!), the upgrade would have been worth it in terms of comfort and control with the way I've got things setup now.

 

[007]

Just as an update, I did get the M4 183 F / X2 160 R combination. In general, they have been great. I just got back from a week in BC, and I did however run into a few instances where fade was an issue. The main place I ran into problems was at Mt Seven, though there was some noticeable fade on some other long downhill rides as well. In all cases, it was not fade to the point of no brakes, but fade to the point of requiring 2 fingers instead of 1. Some of that is arms/hands getting a bit pumped too, but in any case if I was riding these places all the time, I'd bump up the rotor sizes and maybe opt for an M4 in the rear as well. As it stands, I may pick up a 203mm rotor and some adapters so I can run 203F/183R when the terrain calls for it. I never really had noticeable issues with my Juicys under similar conditions, however I was always 2-fingering them since I could never get my cockpit setup to my satisfaction with those brakes and my old X7 shifters such that I could 1-finger brake. Even if the performance of the Hopes was inferior (and I don't feel it is!), the upgrade would have been worth it in terms of comfort and control with the way I've got things setup now.

Thanks for the update. I have in fact installed the M4's and X2's on my rig and am waiting to get them set-up properly (having some difficulty with the M4's) before I ride. And to top it off, I snapped the compression olive yesterday when shortening the lines so it will be at least a week before I can test them out :madman:.

Do your M4's make any noise when squeezing the lever (i.e. at a dead stop)? I can hear a very slight "squish" sound from the caliper when applying the breaks that I do not hear from the X2's . . . just curious if this is something I should look in to more.

Did you set up your brakes yourself? Any tips for the M4's? They are giving me more grief than the X2's did.

 

[jduffett]

I've never noticed a noise like you are describing, but I can check later. I set them up myself. I didn't have too much difficulty. I believe there is a video on the Hope website if it helps: Tech M4 - Hope Tech M4 Instructions and Drawings

 

[007]

Thanks! I have watched that video dozens of times now and while it's great at explaining what yo do, I have had a hard time translating that to reality. I did get the rear brake set up without and rub or rotor flex, but I can't seem to get the front done. I think it's because the rotor is warped. Tried tweaking that too, but I think it's warped beyond repair. I have a new one on the way.

 

[TIGMAN]

Hope M4 183 F X2 160 R

I have this set up on my XC / Trail FS 29er and for that purpose they work great.....however , for any lengthy & steep DH stuff I would go with bigger rotors and scratch the X2 off the list ! My longer travel playbikes get 203 F & 183 R both M4 ! As I see you already discussed ( old thread ).... ! TIG.

 

[jduffett]

Here's what my rear rotor looked like after a couple of descents down Mount 7:

 

[007]

Well, at least it matches the frame now?

On another note, I seem to have gotten the M4 lined up now. This is all however, indoors . . . I have not ridden it yet at all, so it may change under load (I hope not!!).

Tomorrow is a fresh bleed and then (fingers crossed) bedding in rotors.

 

[lorteti]

Here's what my rear rotor looked like after a couple of descents down Mount 7:

This doesn't look good.
The pads spend too much time in contact with the rotor resulting this.
Possibly that this brake is not powerfull enough for you.
With a more powerfull brakes, you can brake later, braking time is shorter, so less heat built up.

jx