[Bikeventures]

I've always understood that the high-end forks (Fox 34s, 36s, Pikes, Lyriks) were best for their targeted environments, but it is only within the last couple of months I finally understood why they were better. Better dampeners, lighter material, etc.

So what I'm trying to understand is how much better is a high end fork over a low end fork. Can high end internals compensate for less travel? Fox Factory 34 140mm vs RS Yari 160mm. Grip2 vs Motion control dampener.

I have a Fox 34 Performance 130mm with Grip1 dampener. The only grievance I have is on repeated, hard bumps, it could be a little more calm. I'm still working on tuning it. Below is a photo of the type of trail where I'm looking for improvement.

Say I reach limits of setting the fork up correctly. What would be the next step for significant improvement?

1. Upgrade airshaft. Add 10mm more travel
2. Upgrade dampener. Grip2
3. Add fancy helpers like Diaz Runt or Vorspring Secus?

or

4. Screw it all, get new fork. Nothing replaces stanchion diameter and length?

 

[Dougal]

Motion control is terrible.
GRIP2 isn't really an upgrade over GRIP1.

 

[meschenbruch]

Do you know how many tokens you have and what psi you're running?

I would try something like a 140mm air shaft with a vorsprung luftkappe, pretty cheap upgrade option. Out of the box performance for RS vs Fox seems to be RS = good air spring with average damper, Fox = average air spring with good damper (relatively speaking of course)

I'll start the comment train for dampener vs damper too; extra water (dampener) won't help out with suspension performance.

 

[jeremy3220]

It really depends on how deep in the travel you're getting over these bumps. If you're going deep in the travel from things that aren't huck to flats, g-outs, etc then you probably need more travel. The Grip 2 is definitely better at handling successive hits than the Grip 1 but it doesn't solve not having enough travel. You could also rent something with more travel and see what you're missing. However, judging by the picture if you're trying to bomb down that then you need a beefier fork to really let loose.

 

[kpdemello]

You can't just take any bike and add a bigger travel fork and expect it to be better - you might end up messing up the geometry to the point where handling is impacted. If you're talking 10mm extra travel that's unlikely to make much of a difference, although it could help some and that's a cheap upgrade.

Fox 34 grip is a pretty nice fork. I think you should focus on tuning it. Grip 2 doesn't add much other than additional tuning controls that 90% of the MTB population probably don't need (although 85% will claim they do). Focus on getting air pressure and rebound settings right. That is most of the battle right there.

 

[*OneSpeed*]

Dampener- makes things more moist.
Damper- what's in your suspension.

 

[Nick_M]

Motion control is a pogo stick comparing to charger/grip1 /grip2 ;

Less travel fork can be adjusted with spacers to match aggressive rider


Cheers

 

[smoothmoose]

I've always understood that the high-end forks (Fox 34s, 36s, Pikes, Lyriks) were best for their targeted environments, but it is only within the last couple of months I finally understood why they were better. Better dampeners, lighter material, etc.

So what I'm trying to understand is how much better is a high end fork over a low end fork. Can high end internals compensate for less travel? Fox Factory 34 140mm vs RS Yari 160mm. Grip2 vs Motion control dampener.

I have a Fox 34 Performance 130mm with Grip1 dampener. The only grievance I have is on repeated, hard bumps, it could be a little more calm. I'm still working on tuning it. Below is a photo of the type of trail where I'm looking for improvement.

View attachment 1956111

Say I reach limits of setting the fork up correctly. What would be the next step for significant improvement?

1. Upgrade airshaft. Add 10mm more travel
2. Upgrade dampener. Grip2
3. Add fancy helpers like Diaz Runt or Vorspring Secus?

or

4. Screw it all, get new fork. Nothing replaces stanchion diameter and length?

That looks like Pacifica, CA? I have Fox 34 performance 140mm with Luffkappe. It could be fork, but more likely I don't have balls to full send it there.

For me the Luffkappe gives me better small bump compliance and midstroke support so fork is more plush on small stuff sits higher in the travel on steep stuff, but it also removed the ability for it go deep. i.e. I haven't bottomed out my fork EVER (like 15-20mm from bottom) since installing it.

 

[commplex]

That looks like rock-it trail in aliso to me. You should be staying high in the travel for most of that trail. I would try a slightly lower air pressure and adding a token. This is how I found my happy place on my fox 34. Also if your rebound is wound out try dialing it back in a click or two.

 

[Bikeventures]

It really depends on how deep in the travel you're getting over these bumps. If you're going deep in the travel from things that aren't huck to flats, g-outs, etc then you probably need more travel. The Grip 2 is definitely better at handling successive hits than the Grip 1 but it doesn't solve not having enough travel. You could also rent something with more travel and see what you're missing. However, judging by the picture if you're trying to bomb down that then you need a beefier fork to really let loose.

With Fox recommended settings, ~90psi, 25% sag, I i'm using 70% of travel? Definitely not bottoming out.

I understand what the differences are between Grip1 and Grip2, ie more settings, but some people like a friend of mine, claim out of the box, the Grip2 will feel better.

And I'm not trying to bomb down these rocky trails. I'm actually very conservative with my riding. The funny thing is everyone says for these rock gardens, it's easier if you go faster. So I try that and my bike starts feeling like bucking bronco and so I get scared and slow down.

But the reason I posted all this is it seems like a basic long travel bike, out of the box, will still feel better on bumpy terrain over a dialed high end, short travel bike. As if heavier bikes makes more difference than all the fancy parts.

 

[Bikeventures]

That looks like rock-it trail in aliso to me. You should be staying high in the travel for most of that trail. I would try a slightly lower air pressure and adding a token. This is how I found my happy place on my fox 34. Also if your rebound is wound out try dialing it back in a click or two.

Yep Rockit it is. Thank you for the tips. And honestly, that's as far as I'll take it with my 130mm bike. I have no aspirations for going down Carwreck or Stairsteps.

 

[commplex]

Yep Rockit it is. Thank you for the tips. And honestly, that's as far as I'll take it with my 130mm bike. I have no aspirations for going down Carwreck or Stairsteps.

The secret (as you mentioned earlier) to trails like rock-it is speed. If you go slow on a trail like that your bike will wander and you will feel like it’s harder to control. Also I don’t know how much you weigh but I am 175 and I run 82 psi with one token and rebound set 7-9 clicks out depending on temp and trail type.

 

[Bikeventures]

Ahaha well if there is a secret for riding that section slow, I'm all ears. Will definitely try your settings.

 

[jeremy3220]

With Fox recommended settings, ~90psi, 25% sag, I i'm using 70% of travel? Definitely not bottoming out.

I understand what the differences are between Grip1 and Grip2, ie more settings, but some people like a friend of mine, claim out of the box, the Grip2 will feel better.

And I'm not trying to bomb down these rocky trails. I'm actually very conservative with my riding. The funny thing is everyone says for these rock gardens, it's easier if you go faster. So I try that and my bike starts feeling like bucking bronco and so I get scared and slow down.

But the reason I posted all this is it seems like a basic long travel bike, out of the box, will still feel better on bumpy terrain over a dialed high end, short travel bike. As if heavier bikes makes more difference than all the fancy parts.

So yeah, the average rider will be fine on the Grip 1. It's a great fork. To get the benefit of the Grip 2 you have put in the effort to set it up. Also, there's very little benefit to the Grip 2 at lower speeds. You kinda have to be plowing to see the difference.

It sounds like you'd benefit more from improving the air spring. Maybe a Secus if they make that for the 34. I also noticed your sag is pretty deep for a Fox fork. I'd try closer to 18% in the standing attack/neutral position.

 

[r-rocket]

Some "high end" fork features would be no help at all for that section of trail. For example, full lockout or remote lockout isn't going to help for that. Saving a few grams of weight at a high price won't help on that section of trail either. Fancy anti-stiction fork coatings won't help much, because the fork is never going to stop moving.

On the other hand, bargain basement long travel forks won't help on that trail if the damper sucks or if it is flexy. A 200mm+ fork might make the bike feel "slow" to steer.

To me, that trail begs for a goldilocks mid-range, mid-travel fork. Nothing longer travel than the max your bike maker supports for your frame, and nothing with "factory" or "ultimate" in the name.

 

[Bikeventures]

What about thicker stanchions? Fox 36 and RS Pike/Lyrik? Overkill?

 

[LMN]

On a long travel fork dampers pretty darn important. You have a lot of motion to control. But a more expensive dampener with more adjustments isn't necessarily better. More adjustments is more opportunity to get it wrong if you don't know what you are doing (even if you do!).

Short travel forks on the other hand are pretty simple, set them stiff, fast and do a lot push-ups.

 

[coachxtaylor]

i never had many issues on rock it but found that when i upgraded to a thicker fork stanchion it tracked much better in the rock garden on that trail in particular. that was from a 36-38 so i’d assume upgrading to a 36 from a 34 you’d definitely feel quite a big difference in your suspensions performance. the speed you carry in that section combined with the repeated bumps probably has your 34 flexing like a paper clip.

 

[EatsDirt]

IMO, a decent modern 130mm should be enough bike for all three of those trails if ridden conservatively… what bike are you talking about?

 

[LMN]

Option 5:

Overhaul your fork because nothing works as well as a freshly overhauled fork.