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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1) what kind of trails do you typically ride? rocky, rooty, tech, tight, flat, fast, etc.

2) do you consider your bike more of an all-day rider, or a speed machine? coming from a hardtail, were you impressed, apathetic, or disappointed?

3) what other frames were you considering?

if you were considering a 5 Spot, i'd love to hear how you came to your final decision. especially if one of these was your first geared, FS bike.
 

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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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1) Typically ride fast singletrack (think the bike is best suited for this type of trail), but I've taken it to Downieville, ride trails with logs, roots, rocks, boulders, flat and fast fireroads ...avoid those when I can :) heheh.....Basically any thing. The bike feels "tight" like you're riding on rails, that's why I think it's best suited for tight, twisty, singletrack. People have said that the steering feels "fast"...maybe twitchy but that's what this bike is geared for...to rail around turns. It's all relative. Compared to a Freeride bike, yes, the steering is fast. Compared to a xcountry racer, no the steering is not twitchy. It's able to ride all types of trails....maybe not the best in each category but it'll get you down most trails with a smile on your face.

2) Definitely all day machine. This was my first full suspension bike and it pedaled better than I expected, better than the other bikes on the market. And even to this point, with all the new suspension designs and stable platform shocks, the bike still pedals great ( I still have the older Floats so no stable platform). I'm going to get the shock PUSH'd though but it's not necessary....I guess that's the point I'm getting to.

3) At that time, I was considering the Racer X or the Switchblade. This was back in 02 so all the new bikes were not out yet. The trend now is towards longer travel....more All Mountain kind of riding so I've changed up the bike a bit....added beefier rims and tires, longer fork, freeride lowers, etc. I decided on the HH because it split the difference between the Racer X (which I saw more of a xcountry racer) and the Switch ( the interrupted seat tube design irks me....still does, but that's just personal preference ). At that time, being a "first-timer" on a FS, I didn't think that the added travel of the Switch, slacker geometry and slightly higher BB was what I wanted. And I definitely knew that I didn't want the racey feel of the RX. I was debating all this BEFORE I even knew about the HH so when Charles told me about it, it just made perfect sense. However, if I were to get another bike, I would probably look more seriously at the Switch...just because of natural progression. The HH is great for what it does and it's probably one of the more versatile bikes out there.

I hope this helps.....you just have to decide on what you want. The 5 Spot has gotten great reviews as well. What else are you considering? What do you want from this new bike? Are you coming off a HT as well?
 

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Not Smart Enough to Quit
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All of the above

the Inbred said:
1) what kind of trails do you typically ride? rocky, rooty, tech, tight, flat, fast, etc.

First, a little background. I received my HH100 about 2 weeks ago and I have about 8 hours of riding time on it. I ride the tight, rocky, rooty singletrack that is common in the southeast (Al & Ga), and I'm coming off of a Trek 7000 hardtail with a SID SL 80mm fork. Before that I had an old Diamonback V8 FS. The DB was a great bike in it's day and I've always thought that the Trek was a light, fast, trail eating machine. At least until I rode the HH!

2) do you consider your bike more of an all-day rider, or a speed machine? coming from a hardtail, were you impressed, apathetic, or disappointed?

The HH is both! On my first ride I said that I was going to take it easy until I got used to the handling of the HH. I was just kind of cruising along. Thing is, when I got to this powerline at about 3.5 miles in, I noticed that my time was within a minute of my best time to that point! This bike feels like cheating and I think it really suits my riding style. First, I like to climb and the HH climbs better than the Trek. It seems that on the hardtail, when the rear wheel hit a bump, the whole bike would bump up, slowing me down. On the HH: Bump? What bump? It just rolls over with no loss of momentum. I also like to corner fast, pedal through turns and over obsticals and I like to take the short line, not the smooth line. The HH excells at all of these.

I also think that It allows me ride harder and longer with the 4" of travel. I don't feel so beat up. I raced it this weekend at the Athens twighlight (3rd sport 40's) and I could just rip through the tight stuff. I lost to a buddy who I know is way stronger than I am, but I gave him hell in the corners & decents! After the race my body, especially my arms and shoulders, didn't feel nearly as tired as they have after other races. Of course, my legs were smoked! So far, I've been very impressed with this new ride.

3) what other frames were you considering?

Other bikes on the short list were the Spyder, Truth, Trance, ASR-SL. I just kept comming back to the HH. I researched this for over 6 months and I'm glad I made the right call!

if you were considering a 5 Spot, i'd love to hear how you came to your final decision. especially if one of these was your first geared, FS bike.
5" of travel seemed to be a bit much for what I was looking for in a bike. Like Charles says, it's a very raceable trailbike.

BTW here is my spec:
23" HH100
Sram X9 shifters & R. der.
XT cranks, BB, F. der., cassette
Fow 100rlt fork, RP2 shock
Magura Marta brakes
Maxxum low riser bar
Thompson post & stem
King hubs with DT rims
Kenda Karma DTC tires with Stan's

25.2 lbs on the bathroom scale
 

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Bodhisattva
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Agree with ddraewwg 100%.
He sounds exactly like me. :) I've ridden my HH coast to coast & a lot of places in between and have never been let down. I've recently purchased a Turner 6-Pack because the terrain here in Colorado lends itself more towards the slacker geometry, bigger wheelbase & more travel, but I still love taking out the HH.
I didn't add the FR lowers because the 2.1 Kendas (which are as big as most 2.3) fit fine on the rear and I don't feel the need for a bigger rear tire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
ddraewwg said:
What else are you considering? What do you want from this new bike? Are you coming off a HT as well?
really, the only frames on my list as of now are the HH and a 5 Spot. without riding either, i like the 5 Spot because it seems like a perfect compromise between an XC frame and a trail frame. but if i've learned anything the past years, i've learned that compromising generally leads to me wishing i hadn't compromised. i want a good, solid XC bike that will perform well on trails from flat and fast, to technical and tight (how's that for being broad). my typical ride is a rigid SS. i recently got an Evil DOC which has a 3" Sherman Jumper on it, SS as well, that can be used for trail riding. it likes going down quite a bit, but ain't too keen on going back up. or maybe that's just me (it's about 8+lbs heavier than my Inbred...built for street/park). anyway, coming off a HT SS, pedaling efficiency is something of concern for me.

i won't be ordering until December-ish, so it's still early. i'll be leaving Austin in June of next year, maybe July, and would like to get Charles some real business before i head out. i figure between now and then, i should be able to get on the frames i'm looking into. just getting some general feedback right now. i have a good idea of what i want, spec-wise, except frame/shock. i do not have a good idea of what kind of terrain i will be riding 'cause i'm not quite sure where i am going to end up. could be as far as Oregon, or Colorado. maybe Dallas...remaining in central Texas is a possibility, as well.
 

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Loser
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My take...

1) what kind of trails do you typically ride? rocky, rooty, tech, tight, flat, fast, etc.
The first four, rarely the last two. I don't race, I just love to ride.


2) do you consider your bike more of an all-day rider, or a speed machine? coming from a hardtail, were you impressed, apathetic, or disappointed?
I came off 15 years of hardtails, the most recent ones were Cannondales with Headshoks. I was initially confused. I originally had a Float RLC on it, and found myself adjusting air pressure every two minutes. Eventually I turned the rear shock off, road it like that for 10 minutes then set it to the suggested psi for my weight and rode. One thing I didn't know was that there is a lot of interaction between the front and rear shock. If you make the rear too hard, the front feels to soft. I know, it sounds stupid that I didn't realize that, but it was just one of those thing. I've ridden it here in NE, in UT, SC and Phoenix and have never wanted for more bike. I don't have the guts to ride DH, this bike handles anything I feel comfortable riding. Its definitely both an all-day rider and a speed machine, if that makes sense.

3) what other frames were you considering?
I bought mine 2.5 years ago, I considered the Blur, the Epic and the Palomino. I eliminated the first two because the designs were too new, I was concerned there would be issues and the Palimino because I didn't want to get stuck with a rear shock that was not replacable if Kelin decided to step away from the design (which I think they will do shortly).

I broke my frame last October and rode a Cannondale Jekyll through the winter. The Jekyll has slacker angles and theoretically should climb worse and descend better. It definitely climbed worse - it felt really heavy, but I found that once I got back on my HH100x I could descend more quickly. I attribute it to the fact that with the HH100x it goes where I want it to go, whereas the Jekyll seemed to kinda eventually get to where I wanted it to go. I can't think of a single thing the Jekyll did better.

I changed over tires to more Freeride style (read - heavy) and IMHO (besides the RP-3) its the best upgrade I did. Eventually I'll probably get the freeride lowers so I can run wider tires. I'm running Tioga DHs with 20-25psi in them, its great for grip and for a little extra cushion.

John
 

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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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Whoa....

How did you get that strut between the seat tube and the top tube? That's one thing i would like to see on the HH but I have a small frame....can't lower the top tube too much more anyways! It's no biggy really...haven't ever needed it to be lower. I haven't see that before. Did that cost you extra? Nice ride BTW.

I added the FR lowers only because I bent the originals. They are significantly heavier than the stock lowers but now that I have them....I love them.
 

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Paper or plastic?
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the Inbred said:
1) what kind of trails do you typically ride? rocky, rooty, tech, tight, flat, fast, etc.

2) do you consider your bike more of an all-day rider, or a speed machine? coming from a hardtail, were you impressed, apathetic, or disappointed?

3) what other frames were you considering?

if you were considering a 5 Spot, i'd love to hear how you came to your final decision. especially if one of these was your first geared, FS bike.
I have a Motolite so I can't comment on the HH100x, but based on what bikes you're looking at, you probaby should take a look at it. It's light (I believe it's only 1/2lb heavier than the HH100X and 1lb lighter than the 5 spot). Geometry is similar (70/73 for the ML vs. 71/73 for the HH100X), and you can set it up at 4 or 5" of rear travel depending on how you're going to use it.

To me, it's the perfect compromise bike that can do just about everything well.

My $0.02.
 

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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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Coming from a hardtail SS, I really don't know what you're looking for considering that I'm not into that. It's very hard to quantifiably tell what a person is looking for especially if I can't relate to your experience. I haven't ridden the 5 spot either, but there are guys on these threads that have ridden both so they should be able to tell you how they differ and what they like best from each bike. They're both great, but it just depends on what you want. I don't think that you'll be "compromising" much if you picked the 5 Spot. But I know what you mean. It's not FR, it's not a racer so it falls in between. To some people that's exactly what they want. If you're leaning on the more racey feel, then the HH is more suited to that. If you're leaning on the freeride/trailriding feel, then the 5 spot would be better. For people that have to luxury of having 2,3 or more bikes (I WISH!!!), then getting a more "specialized" bike makes sense. But if you're only gonna own 1 bike, then something that bridges the gap between racey and freeride seems to be a good choice. That is why I said that if I were going to get a new bike now (and just having one bike) I would be leaning towards a Switch. Or if I were to own 2 bikes, I would get a 6 pack (like Squeak). Hope this feedback helps.......

Oh...good idea to plan ahead and decide what you want before Dec. rolls around. Titus is really backed up right now....if you've been reading the threads, typical wait times are 4 months or so...if not longer. I know I hated waiting for mine ;)

Did you post this thread on the Turner site?
 

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Loser
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Custom frame...

ddraewwg said:
How did you get that strut between the seat tube and the top tube? That's one thing i would like to see on the HH but I have a small frame....can't lower the top tube too much more anyways! It's no biggy really...haven't ever needed it to be lower. I haven't see that before. Did that cost you extra? Nice ride BTW.

I added the FR lowers only because I bent the originals. They are significantly heavier than the stock lowers but now that I have them....I love them.
That strut is a result of my warranty repair. I had two options -1) Titus would send me an exact duplicate of my 23.5 HH100x front triangle, but if it broke in the same spot (TT/ST junction) they would not warranty the frame or 2) they would make a custom front triangle to accomodate my freakishly long legs. I had almost 10" of exposed post (it was a 410mm so plenty was still in the bike). Titus's assessment of my frame failure was that I had so much post out it was creating too much stress on the junction.

John
 

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gray hair in my shammy
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For pedaling efficiency, the HH is tough to beat

the Inbred said:
really, the only frames on my list as of now are the HH and a 5 Spot. without riding either, i like the 5 Spot because it seems like a perfect compromise between an XC frame and a trail frame. but if i've learned anything the past years, i've learned that compromising generally leads to me wishing i hadn't compromised. i want a good, solid XC bike that will perform well on trails from flat and fast, to technical and tight (how's that for being broad). my typical ride is a rigid SS. i recently got an Evil DOC which has a 3" Sherman Jumper on it, SS as well, that can be used for trail riding. it likes going down quite a bit, but ain't too keen on going back up. or maybe that's just me (it's about 8+lbs heavier than my Inbred...built for street/park). anyway, coming off a HT SS, pedaling efficiency is something of concern for me.

i won't be ordering until December-ish, so it's still early. i'll be leaving Austin in June of next year, maybe July, and would like to get Charles some real business before i head out. i figure between now and then, i should be able to get on the frames i'm looking into. just getting some general feedback right now. i have a good idea of what i want, spec-wise, except frame/shock. i do not have a good idea of what kind of terrain i will be riding 'cause i'm not quite sure where i am going to end up. could be as far as Oregon, or Colorado. maybe Dallas...remaining in central Texas is a possibility, as well.
I've had mine for about 6 months.......
I came off an NRS, and ride a HT SS as well. The HH pedals as efficiently as the NRS, only better. It stays active on bumby climbs. Out of the saddle sprints, it does not seem to have any BOB, just like the NRS. Decends much much better than the NRS. The handling is quick and stable. The rear travel feels much more than 4inches. I use it on long rides and when I ride the rocks. It has a very stable, confidence inspiring
ride. Mine also has the Quasi chain stays. I can get pretty wide tires on it. I'm currently running Pythons 2.3. Mine weighs a little over 25lbs. I'm sure the 5 Spot is a nice bike, but for me, the HH was a perfect fit for my riding.
 

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Ted in real life
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I have a TALAS fork on my HH. It allows me to drop the front of the bike on long climbs and to extend the front for downhills. Changes the head angle from about 72 deg to 70 on the fly. Pedals efficiently and goes where you point it. It is remarkably stable at speed. I love it. I also considered a Switchblade but am now pleased that I did not fall into the "longer travel is automatically better" hype. Four inches of rear travel is just right for what I ride.
 

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the Inbred said:
1) what kind of trails do you typically ride? rocky, rooty, tech, tight, flat, fast, etc.
yes

the Inbred said:
2) do you consider your bike more of an all-day rider, or a speed machine? coming from a hardtail, were you impressed, apathetic, or disappointed?
yes, yes,,,but only a bit dissappointed in the standing and hammering mode compared to my ht.

the Inbred said:
3) what other frames were you considering?
Switchblade

Overall, ddraewwg summed it up pretty well for me too.
 

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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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Kinda off the subject....

Hey Squeak...I know the hot set up are the Kenda Nevegals/Blue Groove combo. I've been interested in these for a looooooooooong time. Last year I had a chance to pick up the Nevegals for $20 (cheap as hell) but I passed on them because the reviews said they were prone to pinch flats. I was actually looking at the 2.3's. In any case, the sidewalls seem really, REALLY thin. Everyone likes the way they perform, but I'm just worried that i'll rip the sidewalls....not so much worried about pinch flatting, more worried about ripping the tire. There's a trail we do that is basically a huge rock face....covered with craggly, sharp, rocks. Rims get totally thrashed riding through here so I know tires would suffer even more. Have you had problems? Ever ride through pretty sharp rocks/boulders? How did the Kendas hold up? How about wear? I know that they're a softer compoud. This trail is the only one I'm concerned about, but it's also right near my house so I ride it most often.
 

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Bodhisattva
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For most of the past year I've been running the 2.3 front BG/2.1 rear Nev on the HH and more recently 2.3/2.3 on the 6-Pack.
Terrain here in Colorado has lots of sharp pointy limestone & sandstone rocks and I've had maybe one or two sidewall tears during that time. It's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Note that Kenda now offers these tires in the stick-e and dual tread compounds. The stick-e's are amazing. They truly adhere to anything and provide a real benefit on rock and when things get wet. Cornering is also improved. But they do wear quickly. The DTC has conventional rubber down the middle and stick-e on the side knobs. Obviously it doesn't stick quite as well but wears better.
I definitely recommend going stick-e up front since the front tire takes a long time to wear, but you may want to consider the DTC in the rear depending on how/where you ride and how often you want to buy new tires. Mountain High Cyclery is currently selling the 2.1 for around $25 and the 2.35 for around $28 if I'm not mistaken, although those prices may have changed slightly.
 

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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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Cool....

I didn't know about the DTC version....I'll probably get that for the rear and the Stick-E for the front. Damn.....should have bought 'em when they were cheap. Saw them at Supergo last year but didn't jump on that. Oh well.

I checked out Mountain High....I'll give him a ring. Thanks. :D
 

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Do It Yourself
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I mostly ride rocky rooty tight tree lined singletrack. I like to ride all day but will hammer out the shorter rides as well. I've owned a couple other full suspension bikes including the Superlight and Switchblade. The HH is a great first full suspension bike though. It's something that retains some of the fast feeling but still has some travel that smooths out the trail.

You really can't have a bike that's perfect in ALL conditions. But you can have one that doesn't suck in most conditions. You just need to pick the ride that's going to have the best set of comprimises to match your trails and preferences. The 5 Spot would be a great bike for those that want a bit slower ride and didn't have to worry about tight twisty trails. The HH rails tight singletrack, climbs like a goat and is perfect for my local rolly polly stuff. If I lived in an area with steeper elevation, I would probably ride something with a little more travel (Spot or Pack would be high on my list). I've ridden the HH all over and matched with an adjustable travel fork (Talas, Minute, etc) it is very versatile.
 
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