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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everybody,
I need a stem with the lowest steerer clamp height available. Is there any no taller than 32 mm?
You guess right, steerer too short....by little though.
I have 30 mm (actually 29,5mm) of steerer tube coming off...any stem that can fit there?

I would appreciate any options before returning it.It´s a nice deal I´ve put my hands on... Thanks
 

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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
GearHead said:
FSA at 35 mm is one of the shorter ones.
The question is, can be fitted on a roughly 30mm long steerer?
 

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Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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Sure, Why Not?

I usually leave about 5mm of space between the steerer and the top of the stem on threadless setups. You need some space in there so the topcap doesn't contact the steerer before the headset is properly tight.
 

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Feeding your addiction
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What&son said:
Hello everybody,
I need a stem with the lowest steerer clamp height available. Is there any no taller than 32 mm?
You guess right, steerer too short....by little though.
I have 30 mm (actually 29,5mm) of steerer tube coming off...any stem that can fit there?

I would appreciate any options before returning it.It´s a nice deal I´ve put my hands on... Thanks
Avid Saago is the lowest I've ever seen. I've run them with as little as 25mm, though a minimum of 27-28 would be better. 30mm is certainly plenty. They are no longer made, so may not be easy to find, I have a couple around, but only 1 or 2 sizes so it depends on what length and rise you need. Shoot me a message if you can use something in the 100-110 range.
Larry
http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
 

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What&son said:
The question is, can be fitted on a roughly 30mm long steerer?
FSA states in the installation instruction on their website to leave 3-5 mm between the top of the steer tube and the top of the stem. You are within their limits, shouldn't be a problem.

Also, it should be noted that once you tighten everything up, the headset will 'bed in' as the bearings find their sweet spot and the wedge shaped spacer on the top locks into the headset. This should cause a little more steer tube length to become exposed, maybe 0.5-1 mm.
 

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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
To Shayne: I´m not sure I get the FSA installation instructions right, but as far I can see, they say a minimum of 37 mm steerer is necessary. It seems they have to me mounted leaving between 3-5 mm of free steerer tube coming up the stem, and guess the preload must be performed adding a spacer.Can you confirm that?
To Ventanarama:That´s nice! I´m using a 90 mm with a good rise angle. (couldn´t tell the exact degrees now) A 100 mm with a good rise would be the minimum, since I´ve already removed all the spacers under it, but a little more down front should be fine, not too much though. Thanks for the info, I´ll get in touch if no easier option shows around: remember I am in Spain...would be nice to get something around here.

Please, keep it up...There must be something available...30mm is not so little !
 

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What&son said:
To GearHead: I´m not sure I get the FSA installation instructions right, but as far I can see, they say a minimum of 37 mm steerer is necessary. It seems they have to me mounted leaving between 3-5 mm of free steerer tube coming up the stem, and guess the preload must be performed adding a spacer.Can you confirm that?
It may be a clash between the marketing crew and the engineers. Under steertube preparation, point 3, it states to leave stem 3-5 mm above steer tube, then references Figure 'A' which is not applicable.

As long as the top pinch bolt is completely on the steertube you should be okay.
 

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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
GearHead said:
I think it is a clash between the marketing crew and the engineers. Under steertube preparation, point 3, it states to leave stem 3-5 mm above steer tube, then references Figure 'A' which is not applicable.

The stem should be above the steer tube and you shouldn't have to use a spacer to preload the ste,.
Yes, I really don´t get the graphics. I have droped a call asking for the FSA to my LBS and they have one and they say it should be possible...A 30 mm steerer should go over the center of the top bolt (wich they consider the minimum safe set up) they have to check if a NO OS stem is still available though. 90 mm and a good rise....This is starting to work...I think I´ll ream one or maybe a couple (no more) mm off-the top of the frame steerer...just to make things even better. What you think?
 

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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Have to leave now a couple hours. Thanks for the info so far
 

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What&son said:
A 30 mm steerer should go over the center of the top bolt (wich they consider the minimum safe set up)
Personally I would want the top pinch bolt to be completely on the steertube, if it is only half on the steer tube than it will be using half of its clamping force to push the stem off of the steer tube and you will notice that the two faces of the slot on the clamp will not be parallel.

What&son said:
they have to check if a NO OS stem is still available though. 90 mm and a good rise....
Most of their current stems are 6 deg rise, not sure if that is enough

What&son said:
This is starting to work...I think I´ll ream one or maybe a couple (no more) mm off-the top of the frame steerer...just to make things even better. What you think?
This should be okay to do if you have a lot of extra head tube sticking up above the weld between the head tube and top tube. Whatever you do, do not ream into the weld as this may cause a stress riser to occur.
 

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Ventanarama said:
Avid Saago is the lowest I've ever seen. I've run them with as little as 25mm, though a minimum of 27-28 would be better. 30mm is certainly plenty. They are no longer made, so may not be easy to find, I have a couple around, but only 1 or 2 sizes so it depends on what length and rise you need. Shoot me a message if you can use something in the 100-110 range.
Larry
http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
There is also an avid seller on ebay who i asked a few weeks back about the saago stem and he told me he had several in stock...i can't remember the guys name though, he sells a lot of avid brakes....
 

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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
GearHead said:
Personally I would want the top pinch bolt to be completely on the steertube, if it is only half on the steer tube than it will be using half of its clamping force to push the stem off of the steer tube and you will notice that the two faces of the slot on the clamp will not be parallel.

Most of their current stems are 6 deg rise, not sure if that is enough

This should be okay to do if you have a lot of extra head tube sticking up above the weld between the head tube and top tube. Whatever you do, do not ream into the weld as this may cause a stress riser to occur.
I can ream about 2mm up there, and leave 1 before the welding. The frame is steel, does it make any diference (true temper ox platinum)?
Also, the fork, being a F 100 rlt wich I´m planning to reduce its travel, can be let a bit higher of travel than the minimum 80 in case I would prefer to ream the bottom part of the tube which has much more left (being careful crown does not touch downtube while turns) so any reaming at the downtube, If noticable in geometry, can be compensate leaving the fork with more travel. What do you think?
 

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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
dompedro3 said:
There is also an avid seller on ebay who i asked a few weeks back about the saago stem and he told me he had several in stock...i can't remember the guys name though, he sells a lot of avid brakes....
the only ebay seller that has loads of avid brakes I know is called "elguapogrande" I bought from him too. I´m afraid he has no stems on sale.
 

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What&son said:
I can ream about 2mm up there, and leave 1 before the welding. The frame is steel, does it make any diference (true temper ox platinum)?
I would probably shoot for at least 2 mm left on the top end of the head tube in case the person doing thhe reaming screws up. If they were to ream the head tube crooked and you only had 1 mm left, you wouldn't have any material left to fix the problem. Or if you run into other problems later you wouldn't have any material left to fix the problem.

Steel is better against fatigue and poor frame design than aluminum, less concerns.

What&son said:
I would prefer to ream the bottom part of the tube which has much more left (being careful crown does not touch downtube while turns) so any reaming at the downtube, If noticable in geometry, can be compensate leaving the fork with more travel. What do you think?
This is something to be a little bit more cautious of. You need to consider the possibility of getting a different fork which may have larger/higher knobs sticking off the top of the fork crown, a lower stack height headset, or flexing of the fork into the frame in severve sideways impacts like crashes. You will have to decide this one. Again, you need to take into consideration that they may ream the bottom of the headtube crooked and they will need some material left to fix the problem.

What are you using for a headset? There is a large difference in the stack heights of different headsets and you may be able to make up the difference you require there alone. I would be more willing to switch to a slighly lesser headset before I would start reaming the height of the headtube itself.
 

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Just get a fork with a longer steerer. Will save you money and aggravation in the long run. The wrong size is never a bargain.

You are going to be very limited in the stem choice and will probably end up with the bars lower than you want with no way to change it. May not like the reach either. Spend all the time and money milling the frame, searching for a stem and still end up buying a different fork. Just skip to the end and exchange the fork now.
 

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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok, this is how is going now. I´ve been having a hard time finding the fsa stem without oversized handlebar clamp...With no luck. Finally went to a bike shop just to check what he had over there and he hadn´t any fsa but he found a used Kuyps lying around that had a 34 mm steerer clamp height, 90 mm long and some degrees rise.It´s a nicely CNC machined and only 140 gms. It´s already on the bike. There are 4mm left from the top of the steerer to the end of the stem. Good.I was lucky.

Now the fork is in its 100mm configuration. I´m going to give it a try like this and see. The lower height of the stem without all the spacers it had before together with the quite good amount of sag the fork is carrying and the 250 extra grams compared to the Mars shouldn´t throw me off line on steep climbs as I was fearing.I feel my body position is fine too. Still have to check it on a good ride. If things don´t go well I still have the chance to change the stem and lower the fork.

Shiggy, I´m not returning the fork. The problem here is that my Kona has a really long headtube.Specialized of my size come with even shorter steerers at the fork, go figure.So, in the long run, if ever change the frame, things will go back to "normality".I know I´m a bit stubborn, but the deal was good and It seems it´s going fine.I know I have less stem options, but I seems will be able to find what I need. All the costs of any reaming and such are zero. I do it myself a shop where I have free acces to the tools.

Gearhead, there are 4mm left from the fork crown plugs to the downtube. If any to be taken, wouldn´t be more than 1mm. Up the tube another 1mm maybe. This would leave 32mm of steerer coming off which would widen the stem options to Syntace besides the Fsa :) (I´ve been searching hard on the web)

More opinions are really welcome....You´ve all been very helpfull. Thanks
 

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What&son said:
the only ebay seller that has loads of avid brakes I know is called "elguapogrande" I bought from him too. I´m afraid he has no stems on sale.
he does not list the stems for sale on ebay, i emailed him on nov 17th and this is the reply i got from him:

Hello,
Yes, I have Saago stems for $30 plus shipping. Let me know what size
you would like.
Best regards,
Dan

he actually had two ebay auctions for the stems after i emailed him and only one sold, but he lists 5 different sizes in the
auction , try emailing him and asking if he has any left, he appears to have dropped his price.

also, you havent told us what headset your using, if it is a conventional headset, you may have an option of a lower stack headset. I have 33mm of steerer on my road bike and ended up running a syntace megaforce 260 and it works just fine (syntace emailed me to tell me to make sure that the end of the steerer is at least halfway past the higher bolt. When I had this problem on my old bike, and i needed a short stem i threw a BMX stem on it, it was a little havy, but def. lower stack height and a lot more confidence...ending up running this stem
but had to use an old chromoly cro-bar handlebar because BMX bars have a smaller diamter than mtn bars...it was a lot of work and i figured i actually spent more on those things instead of just getting a simple rigid fork, but i live i learn...
 

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the catalan connection
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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Nice price. Already sent him a message. thanks.

About syntace. They ask min 32 on the lighter cross country ones (easily reached by a slight reaming) but there is a "heavier" (about 170 gms in 90 mm, and cheaper I think is called Superforce (myght be wrong) that only needs 28 as minimum insert. I´ve been looking at them.Lots of lengths and rise options. Nice. They have no dealer in Spain, I believe, but there is a biker in the save some weight forum that can help. Or can you buy directly from them?

Sorry, forgot. About the headset. Is an FSA Orbit XL. Pretty standard height I believe.
 

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What&son said:
Sorry, forgot. About the headset. Is an FSA Orbit XL. Pretty standard height I believe.
It appears you have one of the lower stack height headsets to begin with.
 
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