[saliva2002]

sorry, title was supposed to be "help FOR law enforcement"

My friend works for a local police department and has been assigned the task of looking for grants for money to purchase a new bike for their bicycle patrol program, and he doesn't know much about the specifics and what components are "worth the money." Fuji and Trek both make "police bikes" and again, not sure why they are labeled police bikes, maybe only so the police department doesn't have to spend the extra 5 bucks on the police decal. So I've come to the pros for help. The TREK is over $1,200 and the Fuji Special is about $900 or $1000 and the Fuji Patrol is about $600, so one would automatically assume the TREK must be twice as good...... or, just a better known name. But us both being uneducated in the details, looking at the pictures alone, we both figured the Fuji was better because of the disc brakes (i know, wrong thing to judge a bike by its brakes alone).... So here are the manufacturer specs pages, please help us out. He said he would rather spend the 600, but not if its half the quality. He wants a good bike that will last long with long lasting smooth components....

and its not going to be used for extreme mountain bike trails, mostly on road use with off road when needed. So any help is appreciated on which bike is best for money, and is the bike that costs the mosts really the best.....

$1200 TREK http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/mountain_hardtail/police_bike/police/

$1000 FUJI POLICE SPECIAL http://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/police_special_spec

$600 FUJI POLICE PATROL http://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/police_patrol_spec

and along with your educated responses, if you feel the need, i've included a poll. thanks

 

[manabiker]

I would think a free bike would be the best bike, Harley-Davidson has a $1.00 program for Motorcycles, the police departments gets a new bike for $1.00 a year, then the dealers sell them to the public, I would think the bicycle manufacturers would have, or should have a program like that, just think of the free advertisment they would get, then they sell the bike to the public. Its a win, win for everyone, the mfgr, police, dealers, public. Good Luck

 

[reptilezs]

600 dollar bike is a 600 dollar bike the 1000 special is comparable to the trek bike

 

[frdfandc]

Our local University (University of Delaware) and the City of Wilmington purchased several Fuji Police Specials from us last year. They are pretty nice bikes.

The Fuji is spec'd a little better for a little less money. Full X7 components vs Deore/SLX on the Trek. Trek does have a little nicer fork with the Recon, but the Tora is not junk either.

 

[highdelll]

Tell him to get walgooses (walgeese?) - I need as much advantage as possible :thumbsup:

 

[msouthall669]

By looking at the specs, I would choose the Fuji Special. I am a Trek fan but more importantly, a SRAM fan which is what is on the Fuji.

 

[ChainChain]

Tell them to reduce the segway budget.
Sorry that's not helpful at all but when I see cops at airports or on walking streets with these things it just pisses my off so bad. What a waste of taxpayer money.

Back on topic Fuji A2 looks to have a lover top tube, the better for jumping off in a hurry to tackle bad guys.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Uhhh...talk to other Police Departments?

Why reinvent the wheel?

El Cerrito, Albany, Berkeley, SF, California.....tons of Police departments have done this before. I have a friend who used to wrench for my high school teams who supports these guys. There are many considerations for the gear they need to carry, saddles, gloves which protect but still supple enough to handle a gun, and which shoes will be stiff enough to ride and supply enough to run in when needed.

There are so many other things you can learn about this besides the bike that are essential to making this work. Which tire? SF uses one tire for the SFO Airport floors and another around town. Much of this has come from good realtionships with bike shops and volunteers. There is some resistance to the bike thing in Police Departments having to do with the cool factor (the macho thig is huge with cops like the overamped locker room jock thing) and not wanting to give up that battleship/squad car. Once past that they see the advantages, not the least of which is better contact with the public. They can be very able just like any rider and know when stuff works for them. It takes time to build up but just like teaching anyone they are proud of what they have achieved. They are a great group and are pleased to share.

Google, a few phone calls to bother cops and you are good to go.

 

[Fungazi]

I used to work in a bike shop that had the local (campus) police bike maintenance contract. Based on that experience, I suggest the Fuji Police Patrol if limited to the above options. The Special is OK, but the fork and shifters are pretty low end; I suspect the 4.0 front derail in particular would go out of adjustment a lot.
On the other hand, you may want to consider getting the $600 bike and then having a shop tune it for your riders. We had a few bike cops who were over 240 lbs, and no suspension fork on any stock cop bike will handle that properly (its also a challenge to even a 36 spoke wheelset). The coils in the fork on the Patrol at least won't completely disintegrate like the elastomers in the one on the Special would, but really, you should get the fork set up specifically for a heavy weight rider if you have guys that size.
I didn't even mention the Trek because, IMO, rim brakes have no place on a police service bike in this day and age, unless you have weekly maintenance work done in-house. It also offers a lot less for the money otherwise. I'm actually a bit ashamed on Trek's behalf; that bike compares very poorly to their other similarly priced models.

But honestly, none of what I've seen sold as police bikes impress me, and certainly not any of those three. For my money, here's what a police bike needs:
-quality steel frame
-fork suitable for 150 to 250 lbs rider (which means rigid or air + coil suspension) (I;ve got a heavy friend who has snapped frames... not something I;d want any police officer to have happen)
-disk brakes, preferably hydraulic (less maintenance)
-no derailuers (internally geared rear hub)

Bike makers build police bikes like trail bikes with slick tires. Instead, they should be built like commuting bikes for heavy, strong, active riders who don't have time for / are not allowed to do maintenance.

 

[highdelll]

I ...
-disk brakes, preferably hydraulic (less maintenance)
...

how are hydraulic brakes less maintenance?

 

[Fungazi]

how are hydraulic brakes less maintenance?

My impression is that while its true that cable discs are EASIER to maintain, hydraulics (should) have much longer service intervals (ideally no service other than brake pad changes). Good cable disks that don't cause problems would certainly be fine, but I've seen to many get gummed up in various ways.

My only personal experience with hydro's is my own Magura HS33 hydro rim brakes, which have never needed ANY internal service (or much else other than pad changes once set up). I assumed the same benefits held true for disc; we never had call to service them where I worked, but then there weren't many bikes around that had them.

 

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

Tell the PD to stop waisting tax payers money and assign the task to someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[saliva2002]

Tell the PD to stop waisting tax payers money and assign the task to someone who knows what they are doing.

Every where you go there is that one person, and there he is! To reply to your uneducated comment, which I'm sure will ensue an argument on your part, I suppose you're right.... Because in order for a cop to be good at what he/she does, i'm sure you not only expect them to know every single law in the world, but they are not qualified to do their job, or patrol their community, because he/she is not aware of which derailleur is best...... most cops don't know squat about cars either, so I suppose they should all just walk.... (shawn will insert comment here: "yeah, then they could lose weight" or "yeah right, walk to a donut shop?")

To everyone else, thank you for your input. I forwarded this info along and will continue to check back for any new helpful tips and interesting, although useless, comments by people like shawn :thumbsup:

 

[RIS]

I'm thinking that the Mojo SL XX would probably work okay.

http://citycycle.com/product/ibis-mojo-sl-wtf-xx-67993-1.htm

 

[saliva2002]

I'm thinking that the Mojo SL XX would probably work okay.

http://citycycle.com/product/ibis-mojo-sl-wtf-xx-67993-1.htm

haha, yeah, if you buy it

 

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

Every where you go there is that one person, and there he is! To reply to your uneducated comment, which I'm sure will ensue an argument on your part, I suppose you're right.... Because in order for a cop to be good at what he/she does, i'm sure you not only expect them to know every single law in the world, but they are not qualified to do their job, or patrol their community, because he/she is not aware of which derailleur is best...... most cops don't know squat about cars either, so I suppose they should all just walk.... (shawn will insert comment here: "yeah, then they could lose weight" or "yeah right, walk to a donut shop?")

To everyone else, thank you for your input. I forwarded this info along and will continue to check back for any new helpful tips and interesting, although useless, comments by people like shawn :thumbsup:

Thanks for putting a bunch of words into my mouth, that's always cool. My comment wasn't ment to attack you, so I don't appreciate being attacked. I think cops are pretty much like the rest of the people in this world. Some know a lot about cars, some are fat, some are skinny, some are honest, some are not and some know a lot about bikes. I'm just saying, in these tough times, when money is being spread really thin: Wouldn't it make sense to assign a task like that to someone who knows bikes? Someone who knows a lot about bikes could quickly make the proper decision, like a day or two. Someone who doesn't know bikes could take two weeks to gather info and make a decision, and still make a bad decision. Which do you think would be cheaper? And if know one in the PD knows a lot about bikes, they would be better off consulting a bike shop. They are going to need a bike shop to service the bikes anyway, if no one in the department can do it. Bad management is one reason why our government agencies are flat ass broke.

At the company I run, I would never assign a task to someone who isn't qualified to do the task. It's a waist of time and my money.

If, "Every where you go there is that one person", maybe the problem lies within!

Oh, and about your, "uneducated comment" comment: I can only go off what you told me in your original post. So, if I am uneducated about this thread, you are the only one to blame.

Oh, just so you know: you can edit your thread title, to better reflect the content of your thread.

 

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

My impression is that while its true that cable discs are EASIER to maintain, hydraulics (should) have much longer service intervals (ideally no service other than brake pad changes). Good cable disks that don't cause problems would certainly be fine, but I've seen to many get gummed up in various ways.

My only personal experience with hydro's is my own Magura HS33 hydro rim brakes, which have never needed ANY internal service (or much else other than pad changes once set up). I assumed the same benefits held true for disc; we never had call to service them where I worked, but then there weren't many bikes around that had them.

I would go with cables. They will last a long time. cable stretch can be adjusted out. Hydros should have the fluid changed once a year, hoses slit when they get old, caliper or master cylinder seals break. Cables would be easier and much cheaper.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Sorry, Shawn. I have to challenge a presumption.

" Wouldn't it make sense to assign a task like that to someone who knows bikes?"

Spot on. Brilliant. but so beside the point.

The kind of knowledge that a PD has about bikes is likely to be pretty limited. This is especially prevalent in PDs who are trying to get aboard with this new aspect of law enforcement. Ignorance is not a crime. Having worked with them, and lots of other people, I come away with a new appreciation for how much can be known about bikes and how little of it is in the average person. The average guy on this forum is lightyears ahead of the lay person.

From reading the public profile of saliva2002 he is relatively new to the mtb scene. My guess is that someone in the department was dealt the task of evaluating and recommending a bike for their use. Once he started to look into it he saw he was out of his depth and asked his friend saliva2002, a mountain biker, for help. saliva2002 looked at this problem and saw the problem so, "So I've come to the pros for help."

In talking to my contacts who work with this stuff, we are not the pros either. The Cop bike is conceptualized differently than we see bikes with a different set of priorities and tested out with results to which we are not privy. It is not as if we could not understand the bikes once they were outlined but, simply, we might not appreciate the special needs in the creation of this rig.

As I said, this has all been done before. Further, this a developing market serving an expanding desire by PDs to exploit this very advantageous approach to law enforcement.

I will PM saliva2002 with my contacts.

 

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

Spot on. Brilliant. but so beside the point.

The Cop bike is conceptualized differently than we see bikes with a different set of priorities and tested out with results to which we are not privy.

Even more reason to have someone in the PD take on this task, who knows a lot about bikes or get a consultant. Most PDs are big enough to have a person who knows a lot about bikes.

You are right in every way, it is besides the point. And it is good that he is asking ?'s and trying to help his friend who has been given a task he knows nothing about. It's not his friends fault that he doesn't know much about bikes.

I just made a non-rude and non-attacking observation. And I felt like I got attacked back in a rude manner. I am a quality control specialist. Part of what I do, is go into failing companies and clean things up so they run much more efficiently, so they can actually make a profit. Most companies go out of business because of inefficiant, poor management. And our government is nothing more then a large company that is very efficient at waisting our money.

 

[saliva2002]

well just to put it in perspective, his pd has 4 full time officers (so finding someone who knows something about each subject is not always easy, much different than if you're used to big departments, i.e. chicago has 40,000 full time), and this is something new for them, and unfortunately sometimes bike shops just want to sell their goods, so this is where i came. Thanks to those for the help, i have passed along the info