Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been reading this board for a bit, and I'm impressed with the amount of knowledge here. Unfortunatley, it looks like I may now need it :confused:

I recently picked up a Heckler Frameset, this is my first true FS so this is a new animal to me.

The frame came with a Fox Float RL (I belive its an '04 model.)

Anyhow, while observing the frame I noticed the rear suspension had a bit of play in it. It makes a slight clicking sound, and only moves laterally (about the axis of the bearing). Any side loading results in nothing, it is solid that way. It has to be loaded as if the shock is compressing, or the wheel is moving upward.

It seemed as if it was coming from the rear shock pivot (not the bearing pivot in the frame, but where the shock mounts to the rear triangle.)

I decided to pull everything apart, clean it up and reassemble. After all that the rear still had a slight amount of play. I tried some torque specs found in a thread here to no avail.

I read of a few owners having the same problem, I'm wondering how or if I can cure it.

It appears to me that the holes in the rear triangle have become ovalized slightly, so the diameter of the through bolt and the hole are no longer meshing properly. Also the rear bushing is not as thick (width wise) as the mounting area, it doesnt' sit snugly, so it allows the bolt to rotate from side to side even more.

I did pay for the frame with paypal, and purchased the buy back guarantee, so If needed I can get my money back, and hold out for a new frame..

Also, the odd thing is, the rear bushing has threads in it, while the front bushing does not.. However the threads do not fit the current through bolt. Also the bolts for the front and rear are identical. Is this the standard for Hecklers?

Lastly, I was wondering how you replace the bushing? Is it pressed out, or are the oversized threads used for removal?

Anyone with any experience in this, please give me some reccomendations. :cool:

Any help is greatly appreciated!
 

·
Custom User Title
Joined
·
717 Posts
When you say you pulled everything apart are you referring to the shock only or did you also remove the main pivots and bearings?

To remove the spacers on the shock Fox does make a tool. But if you are replacing them you can use vice grips by clamping on and working it back and forth until it comes free. They are pressed in there, not threaded. You can order new aluminum spacers from fox. Then use a C-clamp or vice and protect the spacers with thick cardboard in between the tool and them to press the new ones on.

My heckler has adhesive aluminum spacers on each side of the swing arm shock mount. It is possible that these are worn out or missing from yours. SC could probably send you these.

I would buy the Heckler pro pack from SC as well. This will replace the main pivot bearings, etc. Download the maintenance guide for installation instructions (CLICK HERE)

I wouldn't be surprised if this is not the original shock for your frame if it is an '04 with a Fox float. I would double check the eye to eye to make sure it is 7.875" just to be cautious.

If the shock mount eye hole has slop in it I would take a pic and email it to SC. It may just be a lost cause or they could have a known fix for this situation. If you can post some pics of the problem area I may be able to assist further.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the quick reply!

I pulled the shock out, but did not disassemble it. I pulled the mainbearings and pivot, cleaned and lubed all of them, and reassembled.

I'll get some pics up for further clarification.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
pics.

Ok, here is an overall pic of the frame shock, with problem areas circled.



Here is a pick of the rear shock "bushing". As you can see, it's threaded and I'm not sure why.



Another pic of the rear bushing.. it has a few indentation marks, but they are all on the outside of the the bushing, not on the mounting face..



Pic of where it mounts to the rear triangle.



I did measure the eye to eye. it is right @ 7.875. This frame is supposed to be an 05' model.. but I'm positive this shock is an 04'..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
dpdsurf said:
My heckler has adhesive aluminum spacers on each side of the swing arm shock mount. It is possible that these are worn out or missing from yours. SC could probably send you these.

.
Mine has some aluminum (I believe they are) washers.. They were stuck on the outside of the top tube mount and rear swing arm mount, I don't see any adhesive material though. It just appears as if they were compressed into the powder coat..
 

·
Ride Instigator
Joined
·
3,220 Posts
DRIDE said:
I've been reading this board for a bit, and I'm impressed with the amount of knowledge here. Unfortunatley, it looks like I may now need it :confused:

I recently picked up a Heckler Frameset, this is my first true FS so this is a new animal to me.

The frame came with a Fox Float RL (I belive its an '04 model.)

Anyhow, while observing the frame I noticed the rear suspension had a bit of play in it. It makes a slight clicking sound, and only moves laterally (about the axis of the bearing). Any side loading results in nothing, it is solid that way. It has to be loaded as if the shock is compressing, or the wheel is moving upward.

It seemed as if it was coming from the rear shock pivot (not the bearing pivot in the frame, but where the shock mounts to the rear triangle.)

I decided to pull everything apart, clean it up and reassemble. After all that the rear still had a slight amount of play. I tried some torque specs found in a thread here to no avail.

I read of a few owners having the same problem, I'm wondering how or if I can cure it.

It appears to me that the holes in the rear triangle have become ovalized slightly, so the diameter of the through bolt and the hole are no longer meshing properly. Also the rear bushing is not as thick (width wise) as the mounting area, it doesnt' sit snugly, so it allows the bolt to rotate from side to side even more.

I did pay for the frame with paypal, and purchased the buy back guarantee, so If needed I can get my money back, and hold out for a new frame..

Also, the odd thing is, the rear bushing has threads in it, while the front bushing does not.. However the threads do not fit the current through bolt. Also the bolts for the front and rear are identical. Is this the standard for Hecklers?

Lastly, I was wondering how you replace the bushing? Is it pressed out, or are the oversized threads used for removal?

Anyone with any experience in this, please give me some reccomendations. :cool:

Any help is greatly appreciated!
I'ts highly unlikely that is the original shock that came on your frame, the previous owner probably took off the original shock (DHX Coil, 5th Coil or 5th Air) and tossed on that Float RL to sell the frame. It sounds like the bushing width of the shock is a tad narrow for the width of the opening in you rear tri and that's what caused your (play) problem.

Anyway....The width of your aluminum bushings should fit snug in the opening of your rear triangle and new bushings *might* cure your problem. The bushings are not threaded either externally or internally where the shock mounting bolt goes through, it looks like the mounting screw actually cut threads in the bushing from the play you describe. Hopefully the holes in your rear tri where the shock mount bolt goes through isn't all wallowed out.

I'd suggest your calling fox for a new mount bushing kit to fit your Float to the frame. It will probably cost you about 25 bucks and should include front and rear bushings. You should give Fox ACCURATE measurements of the openings on the rear and front triangles where the shock mounts up. I like to get bushings a little wider then needed and take off the excess with emery cloth to achieve a nice snug fit. Lay the emery cloth on a flat surface and rub the bushing on it in a circular motion to give you a nice square finish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,982 Posts
It appears that you need new bushings and reducers for your shock. Your symptoms are exactly what happens when the bushings / reducers wear. They're cheap and any LBS should be able to do the job for you.

The parts that you are calling the bushings are the reducers. The bushings are inside of the eyelets of the shock. Both the bushings and reducers should be replaced at the same time.
 

·
Got A Lust for Life...
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
The EXACT same thing just happened to my bushings/reducers. I am running a 5th coil and noticed the same play. I took the shock off and the bushing is so worn out that it slipped right out of the shock eyelet. I would imagine this is from the shock eyelet rotating on the bushing. This is a shitty design in my opinion. It seems like there should be a bushing that rotates with the shock in order to avoid this. The bushing stays in place because it is tightened against the swing arm and the shock rotates on something that is pressed in and stationary? I am sending the shock to progressive to uprade to the 2.25 shock body so they should take care of it. I would imagine that this is unavoidable for every heckler owner. I have ridden this bike about eight months out the year(3-4 times a week) for two years so I suppose it makes sense for it to wear out. It just seems like it could be engineered a bit better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the help guys.

I've emailed the seller about the situation, to see if the Float RL was the original shock.

I was holding out for a new Heckler with the DHX air, but picked this one up instead. Ill have to see what happens from here. If the new reducer kit doesn't fix it, I just may put another deposit down on a new frame.

indyfab25 said:
The EXACT same thing just happened to my bushings/reducers. I am running a 5th coil and noticed the same play. I took the shock off and the bushing is so worn out that it slipped right out of the shock eyelet. I would imagine this is from the shock eyelet rotating on the bushing. This is a shitty design in my opinion. It seems like there should be a bushing that rotates with the shock in order to avoid this. The bushing stays in place because it is tightened against the swing arm and the shock rotates on something that is pressed in and stationary? I am sending the shock to progressive to uprade to the 2.25 shock body so they should take care of it. I would imagine that this is unavoidable for every heckler owner. I have ridden this bike about eight months out the year(3-4 times a week) for two years so I suppose it makes sense for it to wear out. It just seems like it could be engineered a bit better.
I think the current design is exaclty how you describe it.. On my Fox anyhow, the reducer is fixed (pressed) to the shock eyelet.. I can't say how it works on the 5th. But maybe it started rotating because the through bolt was too tight?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,982 Posts
indyfab25 said:
The EXACT same thing just happened to my bushings/reducers. I am running a 5th coil and noticed the same play. I took the shock off and the bushing is so worn out that it slipped right out of the shock eyelet. I would imagine this is from the shock eyelet rotating on the bushing. This is a shitty design in my opinion. It seems like there should be a bushing that rotates with the shock in order to avoid this. The bushing stays in place because it is tightened against the swing arm and the shock rotates on something that is pressed in and stationary? .
The part that you say "slipped right out of the shock eyelet" is a reducer, not the bushing. The reducers along with the swingarm and the bolt that holds it all together forms a stationary axle. This is done to prevent wear on the swingarm. The shock eyelets contain the bushings that rotate around the solid axle.

This is a very common setup that virtually all FS bikes use. It's done to prevent wear on the frame, plus the bushings and reducers are dirt cheap and easy to replace. The Heckler shock bushings and reducers can wear fast due to side loading.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Blue Shorts said:
The part that you say "slipped right out of the shock eyelet" is a reducer, not the bushing. The reducers along with the swingarm and the bolt that holds it all together forms a stationary axle. This is done to prevent wear on the swingarm. The shock eyelets contain the bushings that rotate around the solid axle.

This is a very common setup that virtually all FS bikes use. It's done to prevent wear on the frame, plus the bushings and reducers are dirt cheap and easy to replace. The Heckler shock bushings and reducers can wear fast due to side loading.
I think it's my fault he is calling it a "bushing".. I now know we call these things reducers :D

My friend owns a maching shop, and he's confident we can fab our own reducers.

The seller of the frame has also put in an email with Santa Cruz to make sure we have the correct parts.

Ill let you all know what the fix is.

Thanks for everyone providing feedback
 

·
Got A Lust for Life...
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
So the very, very thin part inside of the eyelet is the bushing and the piece that is pressed into the eyelet is the reducer? I am confused. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,982 Posts
indyfab25 said:
So the very, very thin part inside of the eyelet is the bushing and the piece that is pressed into the eyelet is the reducer? I am confused. :)
Yep. There are 2 reducers used per shock eyelet (one on each side) The reducers are the aluminum pieces that are shaped like a top hat.

Starting at one side..... the shock mounting bolt, frame, reducer, reducer, frame, nut ......form a solid axle when tightened. The 2 reducers butt up against each other in the bushing (which is in the eyelet).

What you end up with is a shock with a bushing in the eyelet that rotates around the solid axle. The only motion is between the bushing and the axle.
 

·
Got A Lust for Life...
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
Gotcha. The setup is different with the 5th as the reducer is one piece and is pressed through the eyelet. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It's fixed!

Well, we got it sorted out!

After discussing with a few bike mechanics. I decided I would get some help from my fellow bike homie (he rides an ells distance) at the machine shop and make my own reducers.

We made them out of 6061. After measuring the front reducers, which seem to be good, and the rear gap in the swingarm we decided we would need the new bushings to be about 7.5 thou wider than the worn bushings to get a good fit, but still allow smooth rotation.

We fab'd these up in all of 10mins and they cost us all of .30cents!

All of the slop is gone, and the new bits look better than OE!

pics :D

Here it is all finished up.. It is quite possibly the ugliest Heckler known to man. Rocking the team MceeDeez color scheme :eek: If I didn't dig the bombproof headset and functionality of the fork I would care how damn ugly they are. :D



It's inagural ride was in the snow :confused: I was still impressed with the behavior of the bike. It has quick response, but it was subtle enough to tackle some gnarly snow descents :eek:

The new bushings! Thanks again to Arthur @Northwest Machine, see you in St. George bro!

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
226 Posts
DRIDE said:
Well, we got it sorted out!

After discussing with a few bike mechanics. I decided I would get some help from my fellow bike homie (he rides an ells distance) at the machine shop and make my own reducers.

We made them out of 6061. After measuring the front reducers, which seem to be good, and the rear gap in the swingarm we decided we would need the new bushings to be about 7.5 thou wider than the worn bushings to get a good fit, but still allow smooth rotation.

We fab'd these up in all of 10mins and they cost us all of .30cents!

All of the slop is gone, and the new bits look better than OE!

pics :D

Here it is all finished up.. It is quite possibly the ugliest Heckler known to man. Rocking the team MceeDeez color scheme :eek: If I didn't dig the bombproof headset and functionality of the fork I would care how damn ugly they are. :D



It's inagural ride was in the snow :confused: I was still impressed with the behavior of the bike. It has quick response, but it was subtle enough to tackle some gnarly snow descents :eek:

The new bushings! Thanks again to Arthur @Northwest Machine, see you in St. George bro!

Sounds like something you could make a couple of buck with, and help some others long the way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Joe Dirt said:
Sounds like something you could make a couple of buck with, and help some others long the way.
:confused:

I'm the master machinist :rolleyes: (pretty thick with the sarcasm I hope) ;) that helped with this. The bushing looks like its just a split bushing (but it has no reason to be that way)

The reducers were SIMPLE...if you have access to a lathe :eek: MUCH better than waiting a week and paying whatever outrageous amount fox wants for their special reducers made of the same 6061.

FYI shop rate on those would have been $10.00 labor and material...but we don't charge for my friend with the team McDonald's bike :cool:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
226 Posts
Gilgamesh said:
:confused:

I'm the master machinist :rolleyes: (pretty thick with the sarcasm I hope) ;) that helped with this. The bushing looks like its just a split bushing (but it has no reason to be that way)

The reducers were SIMPLE...if you have access to a lathe :eek: MUCH better than waiting a week and paying whatever outrageous amount fox wants for their special reducers made of the same 6061.

FYI shop rate on those would have been $10.00 labor and material...but we don't charge for my friend with the team McDonald's bike :cool:
I have a 5th element and my bike is starting to develop some play in the rear triangle, coming from the same place. When I first noticed it, someone said to slightly torque it down and that worked, for about a year, now it is coming back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Well, if you live near UT, or want to cover some shipping costs, I can make you some new ones. I can measure off the old ones, and add a few thou on each side, or if you can accurately measure the width where they mount, that is even better.

LMK, I'll save you a few bucks.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top