[reflex88]

<-- So Very Confused.

Ok, building my self a bike based on an older Kona frame (clump).. sold to me as a hoss 05 but I don't think it is.. It is a 18" Kona Frame though with the round to square tubes.

I need a new head set.. I've read up on this as the last time i built a bike, plain vanilla thread less was cutting edge... Soooooooo.. Internal, that's what this frame has.

But which internal? well, the inside diameter of the head tube is 44mm, so that's one thing narrowed down.. though 50% of suppliers don't note this size.. doubtless to say, they didn't get my money... at this point i thought I had it sussed.. but no, two things have now confused me!


1.
Deep cup? Huh.. This is what I bought, it's not come yet.. This is self explanatory, yeah.. but do I need a deep cup head tube?.. My head tube is hour glass shaped so i guess it's gunna be hit or miss? Apparently the headset is "cup No 9" Does this mean anything to anyone?

2.
What's all this 45 x 45 / 45 x36 / 36 x 36 bearing stuff.. and dos it matter if I'm replacing the whole headset, not just the bearings?

Any info welcomed.. I've found lots of short paragraphs on what these mean.. but not actually how they'll effect me, for example.. the 45 x 45 i know to be the contact angle?.. but in a new headset supplied with cups they should be compatible by default, shouldn't they?

Any Help Welcomed..
(including if you know which konas had hour glass shaped head tube, rather then stepped?)

Thanks
Rob.

 

[MrMook]

1- I think it's a Hoss. The Clump is a full-suspension frame.
2- I think you're measuring the cups of the old headset that are still pressed into the head-tube?

From what I can tell, this is basically the stock headset that came with that frame:
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/16438-205_CACST7-3-Parts-63-Headsets/Cane-Creek-Aheadset-STS.htm

 

[reflex88]

Thanks for the post but that's not what I'm looking for...

This headset is defiantly internal (not integrated) as the removable cups sit in, not on, the frame.

I got the 44mm measurement from using a pair of measuring calipers in the top of the head tube once I'd removed the cup. I Read that the two competing systems are based around either 44mm or 44.5mm head tubes.

Yeah, Not a clump, sorry to mis lead you, I meant the alloy tubing was Kona's clump technology.

Any idea on if I need a "deep cup" headtube to fit a deep cup headset.. or is it a case of just squeezing the cups in?

Thanks
Rob

 

[Whitedog]

It appears Cane Creeks' ZeroStack and Full Speed Aheads' Orbit Z are of the 44mm size (ID of headtube, the OD of the frame headtube should be 50mm), while Chris King uses the 44.5mm (according to Wikipedia). You measured 44mm so either a Cane Creek zerostack or FSA OrbitZ will work for you.

Regarding deep cup, look a these two links from Full Speed Ahead:
http://mtb.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=138&pid=260
http://mtb.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=138&pid=263

The first says deep cups, the 2nd says shallow cups. You can see that the deep cup version has longer cups that go farther into the frame. If you look inside your frame's headtube, you should see a shape that matches the external shape of the cups of the headset. By looking at your frame and looking at the two FSA OrbitZ links, you should be able to tell if your frame is machined for the deep cups or the shallow cups.

The 45x45, etc bearing stuff doesn't matter when you are replacing the entire headset.

 

[reflex88]

The 45x45, etc bearing stuff doesn't matter when you are replacing the entire headset.

Yeah, That's fantastic.. Many many thanks!

I dunno why the whole bearing thing is so un-explained.. all over the net you can find "36x45 on a 45 frame won't work" etc etc.. but no one once says that it's specifically only a bearing to cup issue..

As for the cups, yeah.. I read that stuff on FSA's site already.. The set actually came today (at work) but last night I looked at the frame and noticed that the old (and very VERY dead) headset was shallow, after a brief panic I then noticed that the dirt in the head tube went up the reamed part half way and that the shallow cup had only used half of the frames depth for cups! Yay! I think It'll fit! When I loosened the old headset all the ball bearings dropped out! I bought on ebay and god knows what the last owner was thinking.. he ran it with out a top cup.. a spacer directly onto the bearing race! Eek!

Thanks for all your help peeps!
Rob..