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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Earlier today . . .

I got my Fox RC2 and mounted it up. Put the 8 inch rotor on the wheel and mounted it up. Slick. Got out the Hayes brake adapter for my fork and my caliper - Hayes part no. 98-15069 per the Hayes mounting chart ( http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/MountBracketChart2004.htm ) and per JensonUSA's catalog ( http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BR708C16-Hayes+Adapter+-+74Mm+For+8+Rotors.aspx ).

It does not fit. The part supplied is .638 inches or 16.2 mm thick - see first photo. I took it to my LBS and they had the 6 inch rotor adapter 98-15068, which is about one-half the thickness of this puppy. The space between the brake mounting tabes and the rotor is about .494 inch. As you can see from the second photo, it does not fit at all. Pisser.

I have to find one or purchase a 6 inch rotor adapter until I can order one in. Not Jenson's fault, looks like a manufacturing defect by Hayes. Hurrah for the quality department.

What else can go wrong?

Rick
 

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mtbr "member"
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Isn't the Fox 36 using a different standard?

badlander said:
Earlier today . . .

I got my Fox RC2 and mounted it up. Put the 8 inch rotor on the wheel and mounted it up. Slick. Got out the Hayes brake adapter for my fork and my caliper - Hayes part no. 98-15069 per the Hayes mounting chart ( http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/MountBracketChart2004.htm ) and per JensonUSA's catalog ( http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BR708C16-Hayes+Adapter+-+74Mm+For+8+Rotors.aspx ).

It does not fit. The part supplied is .638 inches or 16.2 mm thick - see first photo. I took it to my LBS and they had the 6 inch rotor adapter 98-15068, which is about one-half the thickness of this puppy. The space between the brake mounting tabes and the rotor is about .494 inch. As you can see from the second photo, it does not fit at all. Pisser.

I have to find one or purchase a 6 inch rotor adapter until I can order one in. Not Jenson's fault, looks like a manufacturing defect by Hayes. Hurrah for the quality department.

What else can go wrong?

Rick
I thought that the 36's were using the "regular" 8 inch rotor adapter for the QR type forks and not the 20mm adapter that you bought. I vaguely remember reading or hearing about it and thinking it was out of the ordinary. The part you bought is for the "normal" 20mm forks. I could be wrong but I really do think it needs the 8 inch adapter for QR forks.

REEK
 

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Trampelpfadbenutzer
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You will need the 8 inch adaptor for the RockShox Psylo,that is what I use at my setup.
It fits perfect and is actualy a good bit thinner the 8" rear break adaptor.
I guess they send you a 8" rear break adaptor...

Later
RaD
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Whoa - that is the first I've heard this

RaD said:
You will need the 8 inch adaptor for the RockShox Psylo,that is what I use at my setup.
It fits perfect and is actualy a good bit thinner the 8" rear break adaptor.
I guess they send you a 8" rear break adaptor...

Later
RaD
I was on the phone with Jenson and they gave me this part, and the Hayes site lists this part also. I definately will check this out today. I did find the 6 inch adapter and it is thinner - it would have the same thickness as the 8 inch just different "lengths" so to speak.

Thanks to you and Reek.

Rick
 

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badlander said:
Earlier today . . .

I got my Fox RC2 and mounted it up. Put the 8 inch rotor on the wheel and mounted it up. Slick. Got out the Hayes brake adapter for my fork and my caliper - Hayes part no. 98-15069 per the Hayes mounting chart ( http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/MountBracketChart2004.htm ) and per JensonUSA's catalog ( http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BR708C16-Hayes+Adapter+-+74Mm+For+8+Rotors.aspx ).

It does not fit. The part supplied is .638 inches or 16.2 mm thick - see first photo. I took it to my LBS and they had the 6 inch rotor adapter 98-15068, which is about one-half the thickness of this puppy. The space between the brake mounting tabes and the rotor is about .494 inch. As you can see from the second photo, it does not fit at all. Pisser.

I have to find one or purchase a 6 inch rotor adapter until I can order one in. Not Jenson's fault, looks like a manufacturing defect by Hayes. Hurrah for the quality department.

What else can go wrong?

Rick
You will need the THIN Hayes 8" Mount which is Hayes Part Number # 98-15604.

On Hayes mounts, they have a stamped number on it. The stamped number on this bracket is # 74-30. (This is helpful if you are in the bike shop).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is just sick now

will-burr said:
You will need the THIN Hayes 8" Mount which is Hayes Part Number # 98-15604.

On Hayes mounts, they have a stamped number on it. The stamped number on this bracket is # 74-30. (This is helpful if you are in the bike shop).
I spent about 30 minutes on hold for Jenson, and then talked to them.

According to Jenson, Fox moved the tabs on the 36 inboard. Because of that, and after talking to Hayes and Fox (according to Jenson), the part to use to mount the hayes brake is supposed to be a 98-15282, and 6" mounting part.

This sucks. I called around and no one has even heardof th e15282 and no one has it in stock.

I don't think I have any choice but to talk to both Fox and Hayes myself and get the straight skinny. I was gonna ride this guy last evening. Now I will be down until Wednesday at the earliest.

Rick
 

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Save yourself some pain...

badlander said:
I spent about 30 minutes on hold for Jenson, and then talked to them.

According to Jenson, Fox moved the tabs on the 36 inboard. Because of that, and after talking to Hayes and Fox (according to Jenson), the part to use to mount the hayes brake is supposed to be a 98-15282, and 6" mounting part.

This sucks. I called around and no one has even heardof th e15282 and no one has it in stock.

I don't think I have any choice but to talk to both Fox and Hayes myself and get the straight skinny. I was gonna ride this guy last evening. Now I will be down until Wednesday at the earliest.

Rick
As Will-burr states, get the "thin" 8 inch adapter. The part number is hard to find on the Hayes web site - almost hidden. I think it had to do with the recent (last year or so) series of broken disc tabs on the QR type forks when people ran 8 inch rotors on some XC forks.

Anyway, I have two 20mm forks with the "fat" adapter like you have and two QR forks with Hayes 8 inch adapters. I ran a little "experiment" for you. The fat one (20 mm adapter) has the same clearance problem on my QR forks as you are having on your RC2.

Just buy the QR 8 inch adapter (aka the Psylo QR - NOT THE TULLIO) adapter. Avid makes a QR 8 inch adapter for their systems, that will also work with Hayes calipers. I have an AVID adapter on one of my QR bikes with a hayes system. You have to use their 2 spacers to mount the caliper (comes with the adapter).

Follow this link and look at item 179-420:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=179&category=496

or this and look at item 178-410

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=178&category=496

REEK
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks, I owe you one

Reek said:
As Will-burr states, get the "thin" 8 inch adapter. The part number is hard to find on the Hayes web site - almost hidden. I think it had to do with the recent (last year or so) series of broken disc tabs on the QR type forks when people ran 8 inch rotors on some XC forks.

Anyway, I have two 20mm forks with the "fat" adapter like you have and two QR forks with Hayes 8 inch adapters. I ran a little "experiment" for you. The fat one (20 mm adapter) has the same clearance problem on my QR forks as you are having on your RC2.

Just buy the QR 8 inch adapter (aka the Psylo QR - NOT THE TULLIO) adapter. Avid makes a QR 8 inch adapter for their systems, that will also work with Hayes calipers. I have an AVID adapter on one of my QR bikes with a hayes system. You have to use their 2 spacers to mount the caliper (comes with the adapter).

Follow this link and look at item 179-420:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=179&category=496

or this and look at item 178-410

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=178&category=496

REEK
I'll order it Monday. I am going to talk to Fox and Hayes anyway. I want them to understand that a little tech note on either site could have saved me hours of time AND I could have been riding last nite on the Fox.

I am an engineer and have been in charge of standardization and standards specs. The fact that they (Fox) do not publish a tech note is BS, but that Hayes does not have a specific tech note explaining this on their Mounting Chart page - where we all go for errata - is not excusable. They both have to know that this is an issue. that is just SLOPPY engineering. If you cannot depend on your engineering dept to take care of the details, then it makes me wonder what else is amiss.

Thanks again. Had I known.

But then again, WHAT IS UP WITH THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON THIS SITE?? IT IS BROKEN MORE THAN IT IS UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have done numerous searches on Fox 36 and have either no returns - search function is erroring out - or a lot of returns with no mention of a brake mounting problem that I have read in the last month or so. Maybe it is just me.

Sorry. Not your fault ReeK. Thanks again. I owe ya one.

Rick
 

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badlander said:
I'll order it Monday. I am going to talk to Fox and Hayes anyway. I want them to understand that a little tech note on either site could have saved me hours of time AND I could have been riding last nite on the Fox.

I am an engineer and have been in charge of standardization and standards specs. The fact that they (Fox) do not publish a tech note is BS, but that Hayes does not have a specific tech note explaining this on their Mounting Chart page - where we all go for errata - is not excusable. They both have to know that this is an issue. that is just SLOPPY engineering. If you cannot depend on your engineering dept to take care of the details, then it makes me wonder what else is amiss.

Thanks again. Had I known.

But then again, WHAT IS UP WITH THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON THIS SITE?? IT IS BROKEN MORE THAN IT IS UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have done numerous searches on Fox 36 and have either no returns - search function is erroring out - or a lot of returns with no mention of a brake mounting problem that I have read in the last month or so. Maybe it is just me.

Sorry. Not your fault ReeK. Thanks again. I owe ya one.

Rick
I am an Engineer at Fox on the 36 fork.

The Hayes web-site page, "Hayes Disc Brake 2004 Mounting Chart", is only current to 2004 product. The Fox 36 & 40 forks are NEW for 2005. I will be contacting Hayes on Monday for them to update their "Mounting Chart" page by adding the NEW 2005 36 and 40 forks to their page.

At Fox, we chose not to publish other companies p/n's in the Fox Owner's Manuals due to they can change the p/n at any time and the manual would then be incorrect.

Technical Note: What confuses the matter on the Hayes web page is the use of the word "International Standard Mount" on multiple mounts. The International XC Standard for Caliper mounting is the same whether it is an:
a) 100mm wide XC hubs with a standard Quick Release.
or
b) 110mm wide DH hub with a 20mm diameter DH axle.
The International XC Standard consists of a "standardized bolt pattern" as viewed from the side of the fork and the "disc tab offset" as viewed from the front of the fork.

The Hayes #98-15604 is truly the "International XC Standard Mount" which positions the Hayes Caliper to fit a DH size rotor (203mm). This mount is what is used on Fox 32 and Fox 36 forks when you want to use a DH size rotor.

The Hayes #98-15069 uses the "standardized bolt pattern" as viewed from the side mount but does not use the International Standard on the "disc tab offset". Unfortunately a lot of Fork companies use this mounting geometry and claim it is International Standard Mounting for their fork with DH Axle dropouts. This is what confuses Disc Brake Manufacturers and the public.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks much. A couple of questions if I may?

will-burr said:
I am an Engineer at Fox on the 36 fork.

The Hayes web-site page, "Hayes Disc Brake 2004 Mounting Chart", is only current to 2004 product. The Fox 36 & 40 forks are NEW for 2005. I will be contacting Hayes on Monday for them to update their "Mounting Chart" page by adding the NEW 2005 36 and 40 forks to their page.

At Fox, we chose not to publish other companies p/n's in the Fox Owner's Manuals due to they can change the p/n at any time and the manual would then be incorrect.

Technical Note: What confuses the matter on the Hayes web page is the use of the word "International Standard Mount" on multiple mounts. The International XC Standard for Caliper mounting is the same whether it is an:
a) 100mm wide XC hubs with a standard Quick Release.
or
b) 110mm wide DH hub with a 20mm diameter DH axle.
The International XC Standard consists of a "standardized bolt pattern" as viewed from the side of the fork and the "disc tab offset" as viewed from the front of the fork.

The Hayes #98-15604 is truly the "International XC Standard Mount" which positions the Hayes Caliper to fit a DH size rotor (203mm). This mount is what is used on Fox 32 and Fox 36 forks when you want to use a DH size rotor.

The Hayes #98-15069 uses the "standardized bolt pattern" as viewed from the side mount but does not use the International Standard on the "disc tab offset". Unfortunately a lot of Fork companies use this mounting geometry and claim it is International Standard Mounting for their fork with DH Axle dropouts. This is what confuses Disc Brake Manufacturers and the public.
This clarifies the issues for me, and I am happy, gratified really, for your input. A couple of questions tho:

1. What is the standards body for the "International Standard" standard?
2. What is the designation for the IS brake standard?
2. Is there a link to the standard so that I can view it? The only reference I can find for these standards is on the Magura website, but I cannot find a reference to the original standard nor standards body.
3. Why is there, if you can give an opinion, such confusion about a standard? I have worked in the military aerospace industry, and acquiring, knowing and building with standards is a way of life. I don't get it.
4. Shouldn't there be a real standard? It kinda looks like a fake or voluntary standard if even manufacturers are confused.

Just an inquiring mind here. Thanks again,

Rick
 

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badlander said:
This clarifies the issues for me, and I am happy, gratified really, for your input. A couple of questions tho:

1. What is the standards body for the "International Standard" standard?
2. What is the designation for the IS brake standard?
2. Is there a link to the standard so that I can view it? The only reference I can find for these standards is on the Magura website, but I cannot find a reference to the original standard nor standards body.
3. Why is there, if you can give an opinion, such confusion about a standard? I have worked in the military aerospace industry, and acquiring, knowing and building with standards is a way of life. I don't get it.
4. Shouldn't there be a real standard? It kinda looks like a fake or voluntary standard if even manufacturers are confused.

Just an inquiring mind here. Thanks again,

Rick
You should post it on the "General Discussion" board for it to reach more people and we all should be asking for a international governing body to take care of it or at least to know who is the governing body.

I'll give a non-related example... DU bushings for some shocks are a common industry standard. SKF, INA, Igus and almost any manufacturer of DU bushings have this size (1/2" X 19/32" X 1/2") in their catalog. You don't have necessarily to buy the Fox, Giant or Progressive DU if you don't want to.

But who tells you about it??? No one because each and every brand want to make us think these things are bike and brand specific. Not true.

If this (and others) are standarized measures, we all should know it and we should be informed.

The case of this brake adaptor clearly shows bike manufacturers have little or no respects for standarization. Thanks will-burr for the insight is highly informative and I appreciate it (even if I don't have a Fox fork) but bike companies should be clearer about this kind of info and for spares too...
 
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