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Discussion Starter #1
So I’ve put about 40 days on some new DT swiss 4.1d rims and I can’t keep them true to save my life. I built them, so I have to at least wonder if that is the problem. However, the other 4 wheels I’ve built are doing great. These rims didn’t build well from the start. They were not perfectly true when they arrived and even the DT swiss calculator was off on diameter. They are several mm smaller than what DT says they should be :rolleyes: I almost pulled them apart right after I built them because the spokes were already sticking past the nipples and I was worried I’d run out of threads once the spokes and nipples fully seated. I pre-stressed the hell out of them and the initial spoke tension was super high and even.

Here are the builds…
Front: DT 240s (may be a bit too flexy for me), DT Super Comp Spokes, DT Alloy Nips, 32 spoke 3-cross
Rear: Hadley XC 108 hub, DT Super Comp Spokes, DT Alloy Nips, 32 spoke 3-cross

I’m only 150 lbs. They are my AM wheels on an Ellsworth ID (150mm travel F&R). I ride what I’d call aggressive XC on this bike, no drops over 2 feet, but fast through rock gardens and looking for roots and stuff to pop off of. I bought them because people talked about how durable they were for a XC hoop. Some people even said they used them for DH and they lasted ok with light riders. My Mavic 717’s did way better, and were lighter, true, and the correct diameter. I really wanted to like these rims, but I’m not impressed at all. I think my riding has moved beyond the 717’s durability, so I probably should have known these wouldn’t last forever, I just thought I’d get at least one season out of them.

Anyone else have experience with 4.1’s for "AM" riding? There are tons of great reviews. Weight is important to me, but I hate constantly trueing wheels. Any suggestions up to ~500g? I run tires up to 2.35. Thought about 5.1's but I'm not sure I really want to throw more money toward DT Swiss right now. Maybe it’s the spokes, but I kinda doubt it because they are working great on my wife’s wheels. Course she’s not quite as hard on them.
 

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It could be the build quality.

It could be your riding style.

If you ride with the finesse of a bag of rocks in a clothes dryer any XC rim is not going to hold up under you.

A wider, heavier rim seems in order and the SuperComp spokes may be too light. I would not blame the hubs.
 

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Oh, So Interesting!
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phatfreeheeler said:
I bought them because people talked about how durable they were for a XC hoop.
Sound like youre using them harder than designed...

I have not bought dt rims, but someone I was riding with had dt 6.1s and they didnt hold up either. He said they were really soft, dented and flat-spotted super easily...

I've had good luck with my F519s, theyre closing out for $29, and are being replaced by the 719s. They are about 450g and 24.5mm. The dt 5.1s are tempting because they are 28mm wide and only 500g, another one is the Salsa Delgados at 29mm, 450g... but I'd have much more confidence in the Mavic 719 or 721. The 823s would be at the top of my list, but they are pretty heavy, and the 819s are a little narrow. I'd like to be able to put lighter 2.5s on my next set of rims and still have a good tire profile, so weight will go up vs the Mavic 519/719.
 

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I've been running 4.1's for a year with 2.35 nevs and now 2.4 BB's. Just had them trued and they barely had to make any adjustments. Running a HUGI fr 20 m front hub and a fr HUGI rear. Beat the snot out of these all over the place. MOAB, FRUITA, CB, and al along the front range hear in Co. kinda suxs cause I was given the ok that when they break I can upgrade to 5.1's.

Must have gotten some lemons.
 

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moment said:
I've been running 4.1's for a year with 2.35 nevs and now 2.4 BB'
I assume that you mean Schwalbe Big Betty 2.4? What do you think about those tires on the 4.1 rim? I mounted a BB up front last week and allready wonder about removing it. Feels like the narrow rim can't support the tire enough.. Causing sideways deflecting/wandering. Experimented with airpressures without really come much closer to a solution.. I've used the same tire on Mavic 721 and didn't have any issues there..
 

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Intrepidity,

I've run into the same prob you have with the bigger tire on a narrower rim. I'm running maxxis advantage 2.4s and getting 5.1s put on my bike next week because of there wider rim width. With a wider tire on a narrower rim, the tire has a greater tendency to roll to the side on corners and going over rougher terrain. At least that's the way it's been explained to me which makes sense. If you grab just your tire and push it to the side on your rim, you'll see how easy it rolls to the side unless your running high air pressure which can make for a very rough ride. I run about 33-35 in the rear and 30-33 in the front. With the new rims, I should be able to run a couple pounds less.
 

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Intrepidity said:
I assume that you mean Schwalbe Big Betty 2.4? What do you think about those tires on the 4.1 rim? I mounted a BB up front last week and allready wonder about removing it. Feels like the narrow rim can't support the tire enough.. Causing sideways deflecting/wandering. Experimented with airpressures without really come much closer to a solution.. I've used the same tire on Mavic 721 and didn't have any issues there..
I think that Idealy the BB's should be on a 5.1, but the 4.1's seem to handle them just fine. I don't notice any wondering except operator daydreaming.:arf:
 

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JORBA: Six Mile Run
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My DT 4.1d's have been problem free, they seem to take about 6 months of riding until they need a bit (just a small turn here and there) of adjustment. My wheels were built by Larry at MHC, so the build quality is tops. Larry recommended them to me based on his experience with countless builds. I have no complaints. I have them laced to WTB hubs and I weigh 180 lbs.
 

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I am 200lbs, mine are built up on King hubs, DT 14/15, 32h, 3x, by me
been running the same set in very rocky terrain for almost 2 years, 4-5 times a week
front is not a 1/2mm out of true, checked it about 6 months ago and again over the weekend
rear is hardly any worse
 

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Got A Lust for Life...
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I am 200lbs as well and have one on the front of my SS, mounted with a 2.35 small block eight. The wheel is about three months old with no problems so far. I ride the hell out of it. No problems.
 

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I used to run Mavic X3.1's that I think are the 717's now. I ride just like you describe with the exception of larger drops and jumps thrown into the mix. Neither the ID or the 3.1's were able to hold up. I had to true the wheels after every ride! That blows. So I bought a set of 823's with XTR hubs and only trued them once a year. Then I stepped up to a Moment and my riding progressed further.

I don't think about the ability of my rig to withstand my riding. I just think about what I will be hitting next.

What I'm getting at is that you might be over using the equipment that you have. At some point you need to decide what is more important. Weight or durability.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah, if I wasn’t so light and often ride with XC racer types, I wouldn’t care much about weight. I also have a 40 lb bighit which I use for anything involving bigger drops, lift served, or dirt jumps. A Moment would be sweet, but I can’t afford the upgrade at this time and I’m really not doing anything that crazy with the ID. Just really fast in rock gardens and no I’m not always perfectly smooth. That would be nice, but is not a person goal of mine. In fact, I really enjoy riding slow in bigger rock gardens and moving from the top of one rock to the next in kinda a baby trials fashion. For the most part though, think of it as my Super D bike. Climbs like mad, and hauls @$$ on the descents.

I’m really just thinking that I got a dud set of rims which were too small (ERD out of spec) and not true to begin with. If I was a shop I could have just grabbed shorter spokes or a different rim, but when you’ve spent a bunch on high end spokes and rims, which two spoke calculators say are the right size, it’s not so easy. I could never get the tension perfectly even or quite as high as I’d like when building them up and now I don’t have enough threads to keep the dish right with the required tension. Like I said, I’ve had great luck with the other wheels I’ve built. I tried to get some help from DT reps at a Norba race but they didn’t do anything for me. I just figured that maybe I wasn’t the only one having issues. I can’t imagine only 2 bad rims being out there and somehow I got both of them. Hopefully, I’m wrong and just screwed the build on these, but I built them exactly how I’ve built others and I’ve never had problems keeping rims true on my bike in the past 14 years of riding. Up until getting the bighit these were the heaviest (supposedly strongest) rims I've ever owned.

Anybody ever tried the Sun S.O.S. rims? Looks similar to the 5.1 in size & weight. My singletracks I built up work great on my Bighit.
 
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