Great Divide Race
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good luck
dave, if i were you, i'd much rather sip some of that really good colorado whiskey you distill up in denver, co. the prize bottle you bestowed upon me last year went a long way to making my NC friends happy.
maybe you can offer up another bottle (or two) as a prime for the first racer to make it into colorado. in `04 there were multiple primes for the GDR. this year's field should bring them back to the table.
two years ago, rolling in from the canadian prologue a start-line Bud was just what the doctor prescribed but pete basinger was the only one willing to share one with me. folks are surprisingly gripped sometimes at the roll-out of this biggie. riders would do well to have fun the first day. it gets tough after that.SlowerThenSnot said:Who's gonna have a beer with me June 15 at about 11:30am in port roos.....
dave, if i were you, i'd much rather sip some of that really good colorado whiskey you distill up in denver, co. the prize bottle you bestowed upon me last year went a long way to making my NC friends happy.
maybe you can offer up another bottle (or two) as a prime for the first racer to make it into colorado. in `04 there were multiple primes for the GDR. this year's field should bring them back to the table.
WTB Nano for me, thanks
i like the speedy look of that marathon but honestly it looks harsh (not supple) after 6 days of river rock-laden fireroads. i say choose supple sidewalled tires with a tall profile/good volume=suspension...and focus on taking clean lines. the mental exercise will help keep you awake.
i don't know this to be true for sure but what i have heard is that the no. 1 drag coefficient on tires is not at the contact patch but is the knobbies into the wind. if true, ramped, low profile knobs (such as a larsen TT features) would seem to rule. it would also suggest that the marathon pictured above would also be good for minimizing drag.
as is true of most equipment choice for this race, things often come down to, "how much do you want to suffer in the name of affecting avg speed"?
the best rule of thumb for most is always going to be not how fast can you ride but what time you start each day.
i never had issues with mine, pete. start with freshies, obviously.pbasinger said:
i like the speedy look of that marathon but honestly it looks harsh (not supple) after 6 days of river rock-laden fireroads. i say choose supple sidewalled tires with a tall profile/good volume=suspension...and focus on taking clean lines. the mental exercise will help keep you awake.
i don't know this to be true for sure but what i have heard is that the no. 1 drag coefficient on tires is not at the contact patch but is the knobbies into the wind. if true, ramped, low profile knobs (such as a larsen TT features) would seem to rule. it would also suggest that the marathon pictured above would also be good for minimizing drag.
as is true of most equipment choice for this race, things often come down to, "how much do you want to suffer in the name of affecting avg speed"?
the best rule of thumb for most is always going to be not how fast can you ride but what time you start each day.
Canada?
While the GDR discussions play out through the year, I'll be the hated one again and bring up the 221mi Canadian Prologue to spur the debate on its inclusion in this race. As far as I know I still stand alone in my conviction about it, save one significant person.
I hung out for a bit with Divide Route ITT pioneer John Stamstad in Vegas last month and we spoke about the Canadian section. He said he would have ridden from Banff if the Alberta/BC section were complete at the time he raced in `99. He thinks evolution can be good for this event. He suggested that if race direction will see nothing of expansion then the only way to get it done is to, as a race challenger, simultaneously complete the Prologue and own the record on the conti-US section. A tall order, for sure.
I tried to pull off both last year and fell short for a list of reasons. But, is being the fastest really enough to see the race evolve? Will rewriting the conti-US record and busting out the Canadian Section in the same effort really motivate racers that follow in subsequent years to start in Banff?
I would enjoy hearing intelligible arguments against Canada's inclusion other than:
-The race is long enough already
-GDR was conceived as a border to border race.
If racers were concerned about length/difficulty, the wouldn't be lining up for the GDR.
As I see it, GDR is a race on a route called the Great Divide MTB Route. This route begins in Banff, AB and runs to Antelope Wells, NM.
.
While the GDR discussions play out through the year, I'll be the hated one again and bring up the 221mi Canadian Prologue to spur the debate on its inclusion in this race. As far as I know I still stand alone in my conviction about it, save one significant person.
I hung out for a bit with Divide Route ITT pioneer John Stamstad in Vegas last month and we spoke about the Canadian section. He said he would have ridden from Banff if the Alberta/BC section were complete at the time he raced in `99. He thinks evolution can be good for this event. He suggested that if race direction will see nothing of expansion then the only way to get it done is to, as a race challenger, simultaneously complete the Prologue and own the record on the conti-US section. A tall order, for sure.
I tried to pull off both last year and fell short for a list of reasons. But, is being the fastest really enough to see the race evolve? Will rewriting the conti-US record and busting out the Canadian Section in the same effort really motivate racers that follow in subsequent years to start in Banff?
I would enjoy hearing intelligible arguments against Canada's inclusion other than:
-The race is long enough already
-GDR was conceived as a border to border race.
If racers were concerned about length/difficulty, the wouldn't be lining up for the GDR.
As I see it, GDR is a race on a route called the Great Divide MTB Route. This route begins in Banff, AB and runs to Antelope Wells, NM.
.
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I am really temped to do it with the prolog I just not sure of taking a few more days off... I've got a month off and I'm shooting for an avg 100 miles a day.... with a few travel days and a few for un knowns.... However its sound like such a cool section of trail i think i'd need 3-3 1/2 days to get that section done.... However i'm still thinking about it!mathewsen said:
Hopefully the bees don't get me this year.....
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primes
Mabe I can figgure somthing cool to do....hummm... Not sure anybody wants to be carrying a heavy bottle of whiskey from co to nm
Hummmmathewsen said:
Mabe I can figgure somthing cool to do....hummm... Not sure anybody wants to be carrying a heavy bottle of whiskey from co to nm
good grief
yea yea some people talk a lot. I think the canadian section of the gdr would be sweet to do. should it be included... f if I know I've never done the thing.
I'd like to do the canada section this year bf I start with all you yahoos. but if it isn't officially a part of the race I think I'd like to take my time and do it over three days. soak up some of that ol canadian atmosphere. I've never been to canada why go all the way up yonder and "race" outta there.
So yea I'm looking to get er done with this gdr event. I'd like to do the canadian section and take 3 days of it and maybe make it a more social thing prior to the start... then matt can try and "win" all the "primes" and not share with us fatties... you know I'd like to drink a 40 while pedaling through canada and try and figure out whos' livin and whos leavin.
yea yea some people talk a lot. I think the canadian section of the gdr would be sweet to do. should it be included... f if I know I've never done the thing.
I'd like to do the canada section this year bf I start with all you yahoos. but if it isn't officially a part of the race I think I'd like to take my time and do it over three days. soak up some of that ol canadian atmosphere. I've never been to canada why go all the way up yonder and "race" outta there.
So yea I'm looking to get er done with this gdr event. I'd like to do the canadian section and take 3 days of it and maybe make it a more social thing prior to the start... then matt can try and "win" all the "primes" and not share with us fatties... you know I'd like to drink a 40 while pedaling through canada and try and figure out whos' livin and whos leavin.
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I just got back from meeting the guys at ERGON in Koblenz, Germany. I was able to get out on a bike for about 2.5 hours. During this time i got to use the new backpack, and the new carbon seatpost. All I can say is....MIND BLOWING!! :eekster:francois said:![]()
The backpack will revolutionized the fit of a pack on a cyclist. When loaded down with weight, the back pack stays off you back to keep you cool, plus the pack does not move with the rider. The pack is always centered on your back due to a joint system. which sits high on the back.
The are is also a carbon suspension seatpost in the works, which might take away the need for short travel FS bikes. More to come later.
ZZZZZ's
This question is for any of the GDMBR Vets: Last year Rudi Nadler mentioned the difficulties he had getting quality sleep during the race. I know that from solo back country touring that sometimes the 'bumps in the night' can get in the way of sleep. Do you think that it is easier or harder to get solid rest during the race than normal touring? Also, how much sleep are you getting each day?
This question is for any of the GDMBR Vets: Last year Rudi Nadler mentioned the difficulties he had getting quality sleep during the race. I know that from solo back country touring that sometimes the 'bumps in the night' can get in the way of sleep. Do you think that it is easier or harder to get solid rest during the race than normal touring? Also, how much sleep are you getting each day?
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Shooting for....
Just my .02
Spending 12 hrs on the bike a few hours for food water pee breaks... then try for 10 of sleep.... I used a fowm pad last year pob gonna go for a few more ocnces and cary a terma rest or a big aggie pad just to get some better sleep... Although take my advice with a grain of salt what works for me might not for you... Plan a four or five day trip and beat the sh*t out of your self and see what works...DBCooper said:
Just my .02
Oh Canada???
Many "intelligent" arguments against adding Matt's Canadian prologue to the race have been presented in countless emails over and over and over and over to the point where I'm ready to puke. The bottom line is that those of us who officiated the Great Divide RACE, who have spent time and money creating a website, discussing rules, routes and promoting the race, have decided that it is from border to border. Period.
If Matt or anyone else wants to start in Canada or Prudhoe Bay for that matter I could care less, but the GDR will not change. Matt has managed convince a few folks that he is some kind of visionary or martyr or whatever with this Canada crap. I guess everyone needs some sort of cause to fight for. I respect you passion Matt, but can't you work on freeing Tibet or something and leave the GDR alone? Just as I don't hop on the Trans Iowa thread trying to get them to include a chunk of Minnesota in their race or send endless emails to Granny Gear attempting to alter one of their 24 hour courses, I don't think Matt has any place to continue detracting from the GDR with this incessant campaigning to fundamentally change a race that has already been established. It was an interesting idea, I admit, I kicked it around in myself, but, sorry not interested, end of discussion.
Don't get me wrong I have a ton of respect for you, but give it a freaking rest man. Rather than trying to get people all divided over this maybe you can re-focus your energy on helping us promote the GDR as it is and has been -Roosville to Antelope Wells.
Many "intelligent" arguments against adding Matt's Canadian prologue to the race have been presented in countless emails over and over and over and over to the point where I'm ready to puke. The bottom line is that those of us who officiated the Great Divide RACE, who have spent time and money creating a website, discussing rules, routes and promoting the race, have decided that it is from border to border. Period.
If Matt or anyone else wants to start in Canada or Prudhoe Bay for that matter I could care less, but the GDR will not change. Matt has managed convince a few folks that he is some kind of visionary or martyr or whatever with this Canada crap. I guess everyone needs some sort of cause to fight for. I respect you passion Matt, but can't you work on freeing Tibet or something and leave the GDR alone? Just as I don't hop on the Trans Iowa thread trying to get them to include a chunk of Minnesota in their race or send endless emails to Granny Gear attempting to alter one of their 24 hour courses, I don't think Matt has any place to continue detracting from the GDR with this incessant campaigning to fundamentally change a race that has already been established. It was an interesting idea, I admit, I kicked it around in myself, but, sorry not interested, end of discussion.
Don't get me wrong I have a ton of respect for you, but give it a freaking rest man. Rather than trying to get people all divided over this maybe you can re-focus your energy on helping us promote the GDR as it is and has been -Roosville to Antelope Wells.
No, Canada
Thanks for weighing in Pete. Although this discussion has been carried out privately, its good to discuss it on an open thread.
Both angles are conservatively-based. My hope is merely to help deliver the full Great Divide Route experience to the GDR and encourage expansion of the race-effort envelope. To include the top trail section merely honors/observes, in-full, the route for which the race has borrowed its name. There's nothing visionary or martyr-ous about it. Any fool could look at the race, review the Divide Route description and wonder why the upper 220mi are not included. If John Stamstad had ridden the Canadian section we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
On fundamentals: to unite the top 220 mi of the route does not alter the Stamstad fundamentals on which the GDR is predicated. And to argue for Canada's inclusion is not the kind of detraction or distraction that is harmful to the race. If anything it helps keep thinking fresh, promotes review. If there is ever a chance that the GDR might evolve to include Canada, why not start keeping records now? Why not have the ability to compare contemporary efforts to the future while the race is still young?
Thanks for weighing in Pete. Although this discussion has been carried out privately, its good to discuss it on an open thread.
We've heard: "The race is long enough already" and "The race was conceived of as a border to border challenge".pbasinger said:
Both angles are conservatively-based. My hope is merely to help deliver the full Great Divide Route experience to the GDR and encourage expansion of the race-effort envelope. To include the top trail section merely honors/observes, in-full, the route for which the race has borrowed its name. There's nothing visionary or martyr-ous about it. Any fool could look at the race, review the Divide Route description and wonder why the upper 220mi are not included. If John Stamstad had ridden the Canadian section we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
No disrespect, but I fail to see the parallel. More than any organized endurance effort to date, Stamstad rode the Divide Route in 1999 with the intention of bequeathing it to the rest of us as an open challenge for all to test skills/limits via a fairly simple set of rules. Rules that he himself has interpreted to be much more about the style than the length. In this sense of charter, the effort was modeled as one of and for the people (to wax cliche). Race leadership may come and go. In the end my hope is that it will be the fields of racers from year-to-year that steer AND care the most about what they desire in return for their effort/sacrifices. The concept of racing the Divide Route will probably endure and likely evolve, whether in our age of racing or the next generation's. IMO, to cling too tightly to the original length/difficulty of this ITT is to impose a rule on the format that wasn't necessarily intended.pbasinger said:
On fundamentals: to unite the top 220 mi of the route does not alter the Stamstad fundamentals on which the GDR is predicated. And to argue for Canada's inclusion is not the kind of detraction or distraction that is harmful to the race. If anything it helps keep thinking fresh, promotes review. If there is ever a chance that the GDR might evolve to include Canada, why not start keeping records now? Why not have the ability to compare contemporary efforts to the future while the race is still young?
As far as sleep goes…
I think slowerthansnot has a good plan for a successful approach. Kent Peterson, who completed the GDR in good time on a ss I think got pretty regular sleep. You'd have to find his account of the race somewhere to get the details on how much exactly. I think around 22 days is very possible with a full nights rest everyday. The years I've attempted it, my sleep varies from less than a 1 hour to 7 continuous hours. I take many naps along the side of the road during the day when I just can't stay awake.
The first few days I don't get very restful sleep because like Rudi described, every little noise startles me, but after real fatigue sets in, even the lightest of sleepers could snooze with a forest fire going on around them.
For me, sleep is the biggest obstacle in the GDR. A few days into the race it is a constant struggle.
I think slowerthansnot has a good plan for a successful approach. Kent Peterson, who completed the GDR in good time on a ss I think got pretty regular sleep. You'd have to find his account of the race somewhere to get the details on how much exactly. I think around 22 days is very possible with a full nights rest everyday. The years I've attempted it, my sleep varies from less than a 1 hour to 7 continuous hours. I take many naps along the side of the road during the day when I just can't stay awake.
The first few days I don't get very restful sleep because like Rudi described, every little noise startles me, but after real fatigue sets in, even the lightest of sleepers could snooze with a forest fire going on around them.
For me, sleep is the biggest obstacle in the GDR. A few days into the race it is a constant struggle.
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Actually, Matt, you've heard a lot more reasons than that. And each of the dozen+ times they've been explained to you, you've disagreed and tried a weak verbal end-run around them, much as you've done below.mathewsen said:
You don't have to agree. You don't have to like the race as it stands. But the race is run from Canada to Mexico, and that's how it's going to stay. Period. End of discussion.
Yep--that's just what you keep doing.mathewsen said:
John had a certain idea in mind when he TT'ed the route in '99. I spoke with him about it just before he started, and countless times since then, both verbally and via email.mathewsen said:
John's '99 TT inspired me. When I rekindled the idea in '01 I had John's basic charter in mind, but I also had an eye on the future. The original rules were written so that the playing field would be as level as possible from year to year and race to race. The rules have and will continue to evolve as needed. The starting/end point of the route will not.
I'm sure you're hoping so. Race leadership hasn't changed since the race's inception, nor is it likely to.mathewsen said:
Matt, in every one of our discussions and emails about this, I've been as patient, polite, and direct as possible. Regardless, you continue on unabated. It has been suggested numerous times (often by people that know you a lot better than they know me) that my words fall on deaf ears since I write them with a courteous tone. It has also been suggested that I tell you to "Go ^%$# yourself" to help you to get the point.
None of that's necessary, since you're obviously a rational, logical human being.
Get the point, and get over it.
MC
with so many details
being thought of this comes to mind. I'm sure I will get to the start and when and if I make it to the end I have know idea how i will get back to Jackson Wy. Of course I can pedal but what seriosly are the simpleist of options?
Sleep!! I've experienced much sleep deprivation and it is a huge obstacle. You must wiegh so many things against themselves and be very stratigic about it if your trying to maximize riding time.
I am excited about the border to border race.
Jay
being thought of this comes to mind. I'm sure I will get to the start and when and if I make it to the end I have know idea how i will get back to Jackson Wy. Of course I can pedal but what seriosly are the simpleist of options?
Sleep!! I've experienced much sleep deprivation and it is a huge obstacle. You must wiegh so many things against themselves and be very stratigic about it if your trying to maximize riding time.
I am excited about the border to border race.
Jay
I have a question. I love the long events, though I've done nothing longer yet than an mtb 100, and 175 on the road. If someone were to ride the GDMBR, reported in regularly and broke one of the records (M,F,SS), but didn't do it at the time of the race, would that count?
It seems that the idea of the GDR from the beginning, was to allow people attempting to speed ride the route the chance to do it at the same time as other people, not to limit when someone could attempt the route quickly. This is just by memory, from following the race over several years.
The other question I have is whether a record could be added to the GDR site for the entire GDMBR including Canada. Since it seems like any route can be included, why can't the record for the entire route be included? I'm not saying that the prologue should be part of the race, only that a record time could be added to the others already on the site. Many of those records were not set as part of a race anyway.
Anyway, I love reading about all these races, and living somewhat vicariously through the posts of the participants. I hope to do some myself in the future.
jimbo
It seems that the idea of the GDR from the beginning, was to allow people attempting to speed ride the route the chance to do it at the same time as other people, not to limit when someone could attempt the route quickly. This is just by memory, from following the race over several years.
The other question I have is whether a record could be added to the GDR site for the entire GDMBR including Canada. Since it seems like any route can be included, why can't the record for the entire route be included? I'm not saying that the prologue should be part of the race, only that a record time could be added to the others already on the site. Many of those records were not set as part of a race anyway.
Anyway, I love reading about all these races, and living somewhat vicariously through the posts of the participants. I hope to do some myself in the future.
jimbo
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Christ on a flaming stick... you have been following the race for years, yet you can't answer those questions?jimbo said:
I don't get it.
:skep:
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