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Former Bike Wrench
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just wanted to share my results with everyone and see if anyone else has a similar story. A little background on me and my joint pain issues. I played Ice Hockey and Inline Hockey for 14 years and in that time I sustained many injuries. The most serious injuries included breaking my right knee cap and a few years later tearing my MCL ligament and meniscus. I also sustained some back injuries due to my freakish long torso. I have since noticed my knee and back pain increasing every year. In the winter, big changes in atmospheric pressure (Low pressure systems coming in) cause severe pain in my knee and back. Riding also caused some knee pain. Long story short, my consumption of ibuprofen and acetaminophen was daily and often during the winter.

Anyway, a riding friend mentioned to me this fall about using Grape Seed Extract to help reduce inflammation in my joints. She said specifically that a particular type of grape called Muscadine was the one to look for (notice I'm not mentioning a brand name...I'm not trying to sell anything). I figured I'd give it a try, so I started in November on a daily regiment of this supplement. I've been taking it for two months now and all I can saw is WOW:D

Now my worst days, I have a small amount of pain...but usually not enough to even consider any kind of pain medication. But most of the time my back and especially my knee feel fine. Its been at least 5 years since I've had this little pain. So if anybody is in the same boat as me, I would recommend trying a Muscadine Grape Seed Extract. There are also studies going on right now about other benefits such as is strengthens blood vessels and may protect against cancer, heart disease, viruses and cell damage from drugs, pollution, tobacco and other toxins.

:thumbsup:
 

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Thanks for the tip! I will look for that next time I'm over at the health food store.

I've had pretty good results with Zyflammend and AvoVida, too, if anyone's looking for suggestions. Fish oil is supposed to help but didn't seem to do much for me. My issues are mainly tendonitis/inflammation rather than joint problems as such, FWIW.
 

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Well, I hate to be "that guy" but I STRONGLY encourage you to do some thorough research before you spend any money on ANY naturopathic/herbal medicines.

First, many of these treatments have undergone extensive academic testing and have proven to provide no true benefit. For the vast majority of herbal cures, the hype has been generated by people that have been swayed by the placebo effect (it works cause they "think" it will, not because it really has a chemical effect) or people that have a vested interest in the treatment being successful (either someone selling it or someone too embarrassed to admit that they threw money away). Also, when researching online, watch out for the evil word "MAY"--you will find that this is the language used when a company is trying to sell you on an effect, but there is no scientific evidence to prove it (or worse yet, scientific evidence that definitively disproves claimed effects). I can legally sell you water out of my faucet and tell you that it "may" prevent cancer, htn, bp, etc.....that is because it might.....it also might cause you to turn into a unicorn or sprout wings and fly.

For a very interesting read, look up the misinformation associated with Vitamin C. Long story short: Linus Pauling (Nobel prize winner), published a non-peer reviewed article claiming that Vitamin C could "treat the common cold". Well, he was wrong....and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars have been spent in research over the last 30+ years disproving this. It really all stems back to Pauling using his clout as a Nobel Prize Winner to gain credibility for his claim.

As another aside, the only clinically proven "treatment" for the common cold is zinc (as found in Ziacam). The efficacy of zinc has been confirmed in true Random Control Trials (RCTs). That right, AirBorne, Emergen-C, Tylenol Cold and Flu, etc, have no ingredients that have been proven to create any statistically significant effect. Also, worth reading about the class-action lawsuit against AirBorne for claiming their product was clinically tested....when in reality the research was faked (thanks to ABC News for exposing this). If you own AirBorne, you can get a refund.

Next, there ARE several herbal supplements that have a TRUE, PROVEN effect. Fish Oil and Niacin have extensive research proving that they are legit. So, there is definitely a precedent for herbal cures having a true clinical effect, but don't be swayed by this. Among the thousands of "herbal treatments", only a small subset actually have any proven effect. (Interestingly, Kevin Trudeau, the blow-hard behind those cures to cancer that doctors don't want you to know, manipulates his scam victims using the logic that: hey this one cure worked, so it is perfectly reasonable that everything I try to sell you will work. Well the guy has since been barred by the FCC from making any more health related claims. No coincidence, he is now selling "cures to debt". The guy just has cures to everything).

Next, the reason I posted this is because I really hate seeing people throw money down the drain. Everyday I see people that say they cannot afford traditional medicine prescribed by physicians. However, when you ask "do you take any naturopathic/herbal medicines?" they respond with a regimen that cost them an insane amount. It is truly sad when there is someone so brain-washed that a few drops of "animal" oil will treat their diabetes that they wont try, and can't afford simple insulin injections (which obviously have been shown through RCT's to be very efficacious).

Finally, it is worth noting that although many herbal cures have no clinical benefit, many have important side-effects and interactions with traditional medications (hepatotoxicity, nephotoxicity, anemia, etc). This is very important to your physician so PLEASE mention these to them. If your physician doesn't care about your naturopathic/herbal medicines, then he/she is an idiot because the interactions are real, and potentially severe. Also, recent research has indicated that high-dose vitamins (as seen in daily vitamins that give you 100-10000x the daily dosage) can be carcinogenic. This is worth considering for those that live by the mantra: "Well, I don't really think these are doing anything for me, but they are vitamins/natural/herbal/ORGANIC so they can't really be doing any harm."

To summarize: Yes, there are many naturopathic/herbal medicines that have legitimate effects and yes there are millions of people that rely on these medicines for chronic treatment of ailments that were not sufficiently treated with other traditional medicines. Is this because of a true chemical benefit or the placebo effect? Both.

I just implore you to be a wise consumer and save your money for things that have been actually researched and proven (and research is always being undertaken to test/prove that these naturopathic/herbal medicines work because, believe it or not, physicians WANT new treatments to diseases. I would love to find out that 3 drops of flax seed oil and camel oil and cure cancer! That would be the dream).

If you want any information on anything I posted above, please PM me. Also, if you want to know about the research into any naturopathic/herbal medicine, I would be more than willing to send you what I can find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
To each their own, like I mentioned I'm not trying to sell anything, just share my experience.

BTW-$15 for a two month supply is hardly "throwing money down the drain". I spent more per month on acetaminophen and ibuprofen before starting on this regiment. Also, there is currently a study by Wake Forrest University Baptist Medical Center on the cardiovascular benefits of Muscadine Grape Seed Extract.
 

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mtnbiker72 said:
To each their own, like I mentioned I'm not trying to sell anything, just share my experience.

BTW-$15 for a two month supply is hardly "throwing money down the drain". I spent more per month on acetaminophen and ibuprofen before starting on this regiment. Also, there is currently a study by Wake Forrest University Baptist Medical Center on the cardiovascular benefits of Muscadine Grape Seed Extract.
Oh, I definitely agree "to each their own" and I wasn't trying to discourage people from trying different things and investigating them to make informed choices for medical treatment (and I did not mean to insinuate that you were selling anything).

Also, not saying that ALL single naturopathic/herbal medicines are expensive. However, some ARE and many people take several, if not dozens, of these medications --> a large monthly burden. Believe it or not, many people other than you ARE spending a hefty sum on these medications at the cost of neglecting other proven treatments and other important concerns in their life (such as the cost of eating properly, etc).

However, for many people $5-500 (oh, and rest assure, I have seen several people spending 500+ taking a daily regimen of 20-30 medicines) a month is not a financial burden and for these people my argument of "throwing money down the drain" is not a concern. I am definitely not arguing that there are not more unreasonable wastes of money than taking naturopathic/herbal medicines that have proven to do nothing--how about smoking, buying bottled water, spending hundreds lightening your bike by 50 grams, etc. :D

Again, like you I am just sharing my opinion. I am not trying to sell anything. I just think it is important people know about my experience as well.

FWIW, there have been dozens of studies already conducted on grape seed oil (in addition to the current one you mentioned at Wake). You can usually google and find the abstracts of the publications from these studies. If you would like the complete articles (not just the abstracts), feel free to PM me and I can try to get it for you (because universities buy licenses to virtually all English language medical journals).

Again, if it is working for you, keep doing it. The best treatment for someone is the one they believe is making a difference. :)
 
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