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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In the interests of helping all my fellow endurance racers out for the 2010 season, I've written a new training tip specifically for Endurance Mountain Bike Racing. It's available over on Singletrack.com

Power analysis, heart rate, and actual workouts that'll make you faster!!. Think of it as a late christmas present for my fellow dirt geeks :thumbsup:

Here's to a great 2010 racing season!

Yes, posted this over on the enduro forum, but I think the xc crew can really utilize this info also...
 

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LA CHÈVRE
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Interesting, I realized I already do it when doing long intervals on a trainer, I was more doing it to break the boredom though...

Jason, I'm starting my second base block, would it be a good idea to already apply that in my tempo intervals? My base, very generally speaking, goes a bit like this: Prep: resistance (done), Base 1: mostly Z2 (done), Base 2: tempo. Base 3: SweetSpot... I'll be doing XC, endurance and road races then cross...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Dan Gerous said:
Interesting, I realized I already do it when doing long intervals on a trainer, I was more doing it to break the boredom though...

Jason, I'm starting my second base block, would it be a good idea to already apply that in my tempo intervals? My base, very generally speaking, goes a bit like this: Prep: resistance (done), Base 1: mostly Z2 (done), Base 2: tempo. Base 3: SweetSpot... I'll be doing XC, endurance and road races then cross...
Dan, yah as you reach the end of each block, you can incorporate them into your program. At the end of tempo-add the tempo criss crosses, at the end of sweet spot add the sst criss-crosses. I wouldn't start out with them, but at the end of each block as fitness grows they are perfect to add in
 

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LA CHÈVRE
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sprocketjockey9 said:
Dan, yah as you reach the end of each block, you can incorporate them into your program. At the end of tempo-add the tempo criss crosses, at the end of sweet spot add the sst criss-crosses. I wouldn't start out with them, but at the end of each block as fitness grows they are perfect to add in
That makes sense. Thanks.
 

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I hate to sound ignorant but if you could please help with some clarification I would appreciate it.

So 3 x10 ON 10 min off b/w 217-258w with 1 min at 285 watts at 2, 6, 9 min

means that the interval is 10 minutes long with a cross over to threshold at 2, 6, 9 for 1 min right? And 10 min off between intervals?

As I do not have a power meter but my LT is around 180hr can you give me an idea as to where I would want my HR for the interval?

thx and again sorry for such basic questions but I am trying to learn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Okie Dokie said:
I hate to sound ignorant but if you could please help with some clarification I would appreciate it.

So 3 x10 ON 10 min off b/w 217-258w with 1 min at 285 watts at 2, 6, 9 min

means that the interval is 10 minutes long with a cross over to threshold at 2, 6, 9 for 1 min right? And 10 min off between intervals?

As I do not have a power meter but my LT is around 180hr can you give me an idea as to where I would want my HR for the interval?

thx and again sorry for such basic questions but I am trying to learn.
Yup, you got the jist of the interval down :thumbsup:

If you're looking for a way to calculate your zones we can send you a spreadsheet to help calculate.

With heart rate training, I'd advise that you back up what you see on the heart rate monitor with Perceived Exertion (PE)

For instance, as you start the tempo part of a criss cross interval, you'll work into your tempo heart rate zone, then when you cross over into threshold, it's going to take some time to get there. When you cross over into threshold, you don't want to go sprinting up until your heart rate hits the zone, but rather raise your overall effort (PE) gradually until you hit your threshold heart rate/PE, then when the threshold part is over, don't soft pedal till your hr drops, but rather drop back down to PE for your tempo levels and let your hr come back down gradually to tempo. Hope that helps :)
 

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bump. looking to incorporate this into my training to mix it up from 2x20s and SST rides.

have 2hrs to work with. would you recommend spreading the intervals out over a longer period of time, doubling down the suggested workouts in the link (with perhaps an added rest day to prevent overtraining), or doing one of the suggested interval sessions and then maybe a hard tempo ride for the remaining 45 minutes?

for instance today i did 10 minutes mid-tempo (around 245 watts), then 2 minutes at LT (300 watts), 10 minutes tempo, 2 @ LT....and continued that for an hour, then did 15 minutes of easy spinning, and continued for another hour like the first hour. acceptable? or would you think closer spacing between hard efforts is more beneficial?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
nomit said:
bump. looking to incorporate this into my training to mix it up from 2x20s and SST rides.

have 2hrs to work with. would you recommend spreading the intervals out over a longer period of time, doubling down the suggested workouts in the link (with perhaps an added rest day to prevent overtraining), or doing one of the suggested interval sessions and then maybe a hard tempo ride for the remaining 45 minutes?

for instance today i did 10 minutes mid-tempo (around 245 watts), then 2 minutes at LT (300 watts), 10 minutes tempo, 2 @ LT....and continued that for an hour, then did 15 minutes of easy spinning, and continued for another hour like the first hour. acceptable? or would you think closer spacing between hard efforts is more beneficial?
Your workout sounds reasonable. But you can do one of 2 things; especially if able to do it without issue for an hour. Shorten the spacing between LT work and/or increase your tempo efforts up towards sweet-spot efforts. How did the efforts look over the gist of the hour, was power dropping off at the end of the ride, was it sustainable,etc??
 

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i was able to sustain the power at the end, PE was were certainly higher as it should be.

unfortunately i don't have a powertap or anything to graph my efforts (power/hr) over time. just using the bikes at the gym which give power readings (instantaneous + average over workout), and seem to be pretty consistent/accurate.

my last SST ride was 2:10 at 261 watts which is the highest SST ride i've done over that duration. not sure i could do that effort while mixing in 20 minutes of LT work during the 2 hours, at least not without needing significant recovery before the next quality training ride.

but i'll certainly take your suggestions of increasing the in-between wattage steadily or shorten the spacing. can probably just mix it up from ride to ride to keep things interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Have you done an FTP test on the gym bike your using?? I've not often found them very reliable or consistent. 2:10 of Sweet spot, that sounds more like a zone 2/tempo ride. Not saying it's impossible to do or can't be done. But typically Sweet spot durations are kept to the 40-60 minute range. They aren't easy efforts by any means, but also not the hardest. Also leads me to believe that doing criss-cross for an hour on the gym bike, you may be shortchanging yourself. These should be in the 30-40 min range to start and then move up to the 60-90 throughout training....

Just want to make sure things are calibrated properly for you. That way you get the best possible workout!
 

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last FTP test at the gym was 2 months ago. ended up doing around 280 watts iirc.
currently do 2x20 LT efforts at 300 watts, so i think i've progressed well since then.

i'd certainly say doing 260 watts for over 2 hours is not easy for me, and wouldn't fall into a zone 2/low tempo ride based on my PE & HR. i can literally wring my shirt out at the end, and if i don't get some nutrition in me i'll bonk pretty bad.

fwiw, i've also been very skeptical of the gym bikes. but if nothing else they do seem consistent from one to the next, i'll have the same PE at the given wattages/levels, can do the same workout and feel the same way regardless of the bike. and if i use analyticcycling.com's power calculator thing, based off an outside hill climb at my LTHR, i come up with very similar numbers to what i do at the gym. just been trying to make the best of what i have to work with.

i also saw here... http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspotpartdeux.html .... that sst rides should range from .5 to 3 hours, so that's why i haven't really stuck to doing them for just an hour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
nomit said:
last FTP test at the gym was 2 months ago. ended up doing around 280 watts iirc.
currently do 2x20 LT efforts at 300 watts, so i think i've progressed well since then.

i've also been skeptical of the gym bikes. but if nothing else they do seem consistent from one to the next, i'll have the same PE at the given wattages/levels, can do the same workout and feel the same way regardless of the bike. and if i use analyticcycling.com's power calculator thing, based off an outside hill climb at an LT effort, i come up with very similar numbers to what i do at the gym. just been trying to make the best of what i have to work with.

i also saw here... http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspotpartdeux.html .... that sst rides should range from .5 to 3 hours, so that's why i haven't really stuck to doing them for just an hour.
I don't disagree they can't be done hence the chart, my numbers were for predominately indoor rides.... Typically when you increase the time at SST, you're doing mostly freestlye sweet spot. Not too many out there that do 3 hours straight of sweet spot, but 3 hours inside of a mulit-hour ride is def feasible. :thumbsup:

If you tested at 280 and are doing 2x20's at 300... time to retest for sure. 300w at 20 min gives you an FTP of about 285 (give or take), 2x20's are typically done at 95% of ftp
 
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