[way2slow]

FWIW and b/c inquiring minds want to know :thumbsup:

I, like so many others out there, find myself between sizes for the Tallboy. I currently ride a Large Jet 9, but looking at a Tallboy amongst others. In an effort to perhaps better figure out which size fits better, the Large vs XLarge TB, I compiled a table of geos thats shown below. Measurements were taken directly from all three bikes after setting myself up 1cm behind KOPS. I'm 6' even w 34.5" cycle inseam.

Perhaps wrongly, I put about 18mm of paper underneath the front wheel of the 80mm Jet to get the 100mm fr shock geo numbers. Yes, I did readjust my saddle for-aft position on the bike. The 85.7cm cockpit length on the Jet 80mm was kinda my holy grail for position. Its the bike Ive ridden for about 6months and that size cockpit feels good. Both TBs had 100mm fr shocks.

I ve ridden the TB Large w 110mm stem and it felt good, kinda whippy and railed sweepers. But I did have a little lower back ache, which could have been due to the shorter cockpit. Downhills were a tad nervous and I really prefer a shorter stem than 110mm. Ive yet to ride the XL, but worry about the longer wheelbase giving a more boatlike ride character and loss of liveliness. But on paper the XL looks like the more comparable size to the Jet 80mm judging by frame reach numbers.

-----------------------------------Jet 9 100mm----TB L-------TB XL-----Jet 9 80mm

Frame Reach ----------------- 43.0---------------42.1------- 44.3-------43.9
Hbar Reach----------------------51.4---------------50.8-------51.7--------52.0
Stack------------------------------62.6---------------61.3--------62.0--------61.5
Cockpit Length-----------------85.2---------------85.3--------85.4--------85.7
Saddle Offset to BB----------34.1---------------34.0--------34.0--------34.0
ETT---------------------------------62.1---------------61.6--------64.0--------61.8
Fr Center-------------------------67.4---------------67.3--------69.3--------67.4
Stem-------------------------------100mm-----------110mm---90mm-----100mm
Drop to Bars---------------------3.0----------------3.4----------4.9-----------4.4

Points of interest: ETTs are nearly the same from Jet 80mm (61.8) to TB L (61.6) yet frame reach on Jet (43.9) is much greater than that on TB L (42.1). 80mm to 100mm fr shock accounts for some of this, but I also believe the STA on the TB is a tad bit slacker than the Jet even though both are listed at 73. Most of the TBs Ive seen have a zero offset seatpost in an effort to compensate for slacker STA. Also may be why the TBs have a reputation for a smaller feeling cockpit.

BTW, the Jet frame is on Ebay now, black anodized frame.

 

[bt]

nice spam

 

[artnshel]

Nice comparison.

Is Frame Reach to the center, top of the headset?
Is Handlebar reach to the center top of the bar?

What is saddle offset to BB? I measure center of BB to the front of the seat horizontally and kops for me is at 70mm which is an unusually forward seat position.

Your ETT numbers don't match the listed spec's of 609/L and 635/XL? Are you confident in your numbers?

I think you would be well served to consider wheelbase as to me it is a factor in how big a bike feels in tight quarters.

I'm going from a large 09 Rip, I have no qualms about the fit, and thinking about an XL Tallboy. I'm about an inch shorter than you with a 803mm measurement from center of bb to top of seat through the center of the seatpost so I do have long legs. However I like short stems, I have a 70mm on my Rip now and don't plan to go longer.

I've only ridden the XL tallboy off road but really liked it. I had thought the Large would be right for me but could only get on the XL. I really liked it and at the time, 6 months ago, was sure the XL was right for me. Now I'm getting ready to pull the trigger and am wondering about it again. I'll run a 120mm fork which would make the reach shorter still. After working through this I still think the XL will be right for me.

 

[way2slow]

Is Frame Reach to the center, top of the headset?
Is Handlebar reach to the center top of the bar?

I measured frame reach from top of the headtube. Yes, Hbar reach is to the center top of bar.

What is saddle offset to BB?

I use the same saddle for all my bikes so I measure to the rear of the saddle from the wall. Then subtract that from the wall to BB measurement.

Your ETT numbers don't match the listed spec's of 609/L and 635/XL? Are you confident in your numbers?

Yes. I measured several times drawing a horizontal line from the center top of the HT to the seat post. This measurement will change depending on where you take the measurement from since the STA differs from the HTA.

Wow your 803mm length is long. I use about a 765mm BB to top seat distance and thats through center of the seat rail.

I got to ride a L TB for some 50 miles over 2 days and liked some aspects and others not so much. I really want to like the Large, but have this nagging feeling that the XL would be best. Even with the 110mm stem on the large TB, I still can get the cockpit as long as my Jet 9. That worries me. A guy here will loan me his XL TB when the weather clears here. I m hoping the XL doesnt give me that tuna boat feel.

 

[dpastore22]

way2slow I'm almost in the same exact boat as you. I'm 6'1/2" with a 35inch natural inseam. I rode a Large TB and just felt a little cramped in the cockpit, I wanted to try an XL but was worried that it would ride like a boat as well. Honestly the Large TB climbed amazing, but felt twitchy on the descents.

Please give me feedback on the XL TB when you get a chance, I would like to hear your opinion on both the climbs and descents!!!

 

[DirtDummy]

6'1.5". I've owned a L Jet and now own an XL TB. The L TB was way too small.

 

[kardy]

I rented a L TB and put about 6 hours on it in southern California a couple of weeks ago. I'm 6'0", 34" crotch to floor. I had them put a setback (Thomson) post on it after riding around the parking lot for sizing and was able to get the seat where it needed to be, but my torso was still cramped. It had a 70mm stem on it, and I think I could've gone to 110mm no problem. So, bottom line - I'd probably buy an XL. That way I could run a regular post and 70-80mm stem and feel just about right. Hope that helps.

 

[way2slow]

way2slow I'm almost in the same exact boat as you. I'm 6'1/2" with a 35inch natural inseam. I rode a Large TB and just felt a little cramped in the cockpit, I wanted to try an XL but was worried that it would ride like a boat as well. Honestly the Large TB climbed amazing, but felt twitchy on the descents.

Please give me feedback on the XL TB when you get a chance, I would like to hear your opinion on both the climbs and descents!!!

Finally got the opportunity to ride an XL TB yesterday for about an hour. I knew within the first 10 mins that the XL was a better fit for me (6' 34.5" cycle inseam). I took the cockpit measurement off my L Jet 9 and ended up needing a 100mm stem on the XL TB. There is no way I can get this extension on the Large TB unless I went to a 120mm stem...no thanks.

My big pre ride worry with the XL was poor handling ala tuna boat feel, a general loss of snappiness. There was only a small amount of that, not quite as snappy BUT much more comfortable. High speed twistie trail sections were very stable and fast, never found that wash out point. Also did some techy rocky stuff and again found the bike easy to turn and maintain balance. I cleared a lot of sections that normally give me trouble. Downhills were confidence inspiring thus able to carry more speed. This is where the large really felt small. Bottom line was I ordered an XL TB yesterday through 918XC.

Oh one more thing, I saw on the UK Santa Cruz site a TB ride report that stated their measurements for HTA and STA were 70.5 and 71.5 respectively! This sure would explain why the TBs seem to run so small and why most of them I see have a zero offset seatpost. We are all cramming the seat forward to make up for the slack STA.

 

[Guest]

Oh one more thing, I saw on the UK Santa Cruz site a TB ride report that stated their measurements for HTA and STA were 70.5 and 71.5 respectively! This sure would explain why the TBs seem to run so small and why most of them I see have a zero offset seatpost. We are all cramming the seat forward to make up for the slack STA.

That STA is clearly wrong and who's cramming their seats forward on a Tallboy? I do the opposite.

The Jet has a steeper STA than a Tallboy. That explains the discrepancy between reach and ETT on these frames. ETT is unreliable.

 

[artnshel]

I got an XL Tallboy and even at only 5'11" am really happy with the fit. However if I weren't committed to short stems and a forward seat position I would have gone with a large.