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Fun Bolts on a Horizontal Dropout?

3542 Views 22 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  edubfromktown
I have a CK hub with Fun Bolts. Will these hold up to single-speed use on a horizontal dropout? i.e. no 'tugs', just bolt clamping force holding the wheel in place

Relevance: I'm planning to replace the vertical dropouts on my Ritchey with a single-speed friendly dropout. The chainstay geometry on the Ritchey frame limits a number of the adjustable dropouts made by Paragon and others. The hooded, horizontal dropout, like what some earlier Surly and Spot frames used, would be the easiest cut-out-and-weld-in replacement.
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Frankly, I would be looking into stablizing the axle with either tugs or snail cams. As for cut and replace... Go into a slider arrangement if at all possible for that drama free, dauntless SS changeup.
Sort it out with contacting PMW and a few others for guidance on this project.
Anybody with first-hand experience care to chime in?
I have a CK hub with Fun Bolts. Will these hold up to single-speed use on a horizontal dropout? i.e. no 'tugs', just bolt clamping force holding the wheel in place

Relevance: I'm planning to replace the vertical dropouts on my Ritchey with a single-speed friendly dropout. The chainstay geometry on the Ritchey frame limits a number of the adjustable dropouts made by Paragon and others. The hooded, horizontal dropout, like what some earlier Surly and Spot frames used, would be the easiest cut-out-and-weld-in replacement.
I used just the Fun Bolts on my Kona Unit, but IIRC, it had set screws through the drop out that would allow you to adjust tension before tightening down the Fun Bolts. Without something to keep the axle from sliding forward, you're going to be readjusting your chain tension more often.
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It might not be difficult to modify a set of hooded, horizontal drop-outs for set screws...or, just mill out something custom from 3/4" stock. Hmmm... (or just replace the BB shell with something eccentric-friendly...double hmmm)
I ran my CK hub with the fun bolts on a 2008 Vassago Jabberwocky for several years without issue. Although that frame did have screws that came in from the front of the dropouts that were set to keep the rear axle from slipping forward, so I really do not know how things would have worked without them. I have also run a set of these type tensioners on a Fort Onyx SS frame that had track end dropouts with a Paul hub and they worked fine.


Push comes to shove and I will say that those fun bolts are pretty hefty size bolts. You could just give them a try by themselves and see what happens.
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Thinking back on set-screws, it does make me wonder...on the drive-side, the set-screws will help prevent the axle pulling forward; but, they will do nothing on the non-drive side to prevent the axle from moving backward under braking forces. Perhaps the braking forces are more prone to skid the rear-wheel at that point, and the maximum impulse at the axle doesn't approach that of the drive-side under chain tension?

Who's had the non-drive side back out under hard braking forces with Fun Bolts on horizontal drop-outs?
Yes. I have a Bianchi SS with CK hubs and use the fun bolts. My experience--I've had zero issues and they are much easier to use than tug nuts. Just be sure to pack the proper tools for any trailside flats.

I originally purchased a 2005 Bianchi SASS. It came with Bianchi's tug nuts mated to a Spot (brand) rear hub. The Bianchi tug nuts were (the worst) very finicky to use. After a few months, I "upgraded" to a similar set of Surly tug-nuts. Still finicky BUT they were also bottle openers! This lasted until summer2006 when the Spot hub died. I got the CK hub and fun bolts. Game changer, so easy to use. Later in 2007, I tore the SASS' frame from the horizontal dropouts (non drive side) forward through the disc brake mount. Bianchi warrantied the frame with a MUSS. The MUSS is still in use and see's a few hundred miles per year. Zero issues with the rear hub and fun bolts.

Fun fact--before the current iteration of thread thru-axles, CK used to spec the tug nuts on the rear wheels of tandems. King's engineering is legit.
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Who's had the non-drive side back out under hard braking forces with Fun Bolts on horizontal drop-outs?
If they back out, then they are not torqued to spec.
If they back out, then they are not torqued to spec.
Couldn't you make the same argument for the case of the drive-side pulling forward (without set-screws)?
Couldn't you make the same argument for the case of the drive-side pulling forward (without set-screws)?
I have not experienced the driveside pulling forward with King Fun Bolts. Prior to that, the original Bianchi tug nuts and Surly tug nuts did not have that issue either. The tug nuts required more time and effort to set up; so I can see how there'd be some potential for user error. Regardless, I cannot personally make that argument.
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Gotchya. I appreciate the info!
I use a Surly Ultra Fixie hub with fun bolts on horizontal dropouts and even with the torque both directions on a fixed cog it doesn't slip. When I use a QR singlespeed hub on the same frame, I have to use a chain tug.
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I use a Surly Ultra Fixie hub with fun bolts on horizontal dropouts and even with the torque both directions on a fixed cog it doesn't slip. When I use a QR singlespeed hub on the same frame, I have to use a chain tug.
Interesting...even with the less-robust bolt set-up (compared to Chris King) it holds fine. I do notice that the bolt caps on the Surly hub are knurled, but the CK Fun Bolt caps are not (though, both hubs are knurled at the axle)...
I had a Redline Monocog for years with a 135 King ISO 6-bolt hub attached via fun bolts and never had issues. I rode that bike daily for many years. I did put anti-seize on the bolts and pulled them down fo 50 Nm every few weeks. No issues.

To add, that bike came with tugs, but I had to drill them out to get the threaded part of the fun bolts through the tug when I upgraded to the wheels with the King hubs. The stock wheels on that bike were complete trash. This hog out was unappealing to me, so I took them off anticipating having to put them back on if I saw problems. Never did. Sold the bike, but I still have the hogged out tugs I am sure somewhere in my parts bins.
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Yep, King with fun bolts holds just fine, even for trials (nearly 1:1 ratio, stamping on the pedals hard, rough landings, massive rear disc brake). Just pull the wheel back and do the bolts up tight, no need for another fixing or tensioning method.
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I made track ends with disc mounts with some titanium plate I got on eBay and they worked great with the CK Fun Bolts and no other fasteners. Super simple and completely reliable. I still prefer that system to anything I’ve seen or tried.
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Yep, King with fun bolts holds just fine, even for trials (nearly 1:1 ratio, stamping on the pedals hard, rough landings, massive rear disc brake). Just pull the wheel back and do the bolts up tight, no need for another fixing or tensioning method.
Mod or stock?

I have a KOXX Red Sky stock that is dual disc. That bike tests chains and either approves em for general fleet use or denies their use!
Mod or stock?

I have a KOXX Red Sky stock that is dual disc. That bike tests chains and either approves em for general fleet use or denies their use!
Stock, specifically a Hydroxx. I've also had a Red Sky which was a lovely bike!
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Stock, specifically a Hydroxx. I've also had a Red Sky which was a lovely bike!
Oh my! I remember the Hydroxx! Love my Red Sky. Wouldn't be the same without that pithy bike without a seat but with an attitude around for some playtime antics.
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