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'18 Transition Sentinel
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For those with BottleRocket...

Which FSA headset are you using; Orbit Xtreme Pro 1.5R or Orbit Z 1.5R (currently listed on BR-parts page) or Big Fat Pig 1.5R?

I know that "Big Fat..." is a more economical version, and that Xtreme is "external" style while "Z" is "internal" style (right?). Other than the external/style difference, are the Xtreme & Z about the equal quality? Which would you prefer/recommend & why?

For folks with "long-term" experience on this/these headset(s), any issues so far?

(I've only used regular 1-1/8" Chris King headset, and previously never had FSA headset or anything that does 1-1/8" ~ 1.5" conversion.)

Thanks for your feedback in advance,
- PiroChu

 

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I'm using a set of e13 reducer cups and a Cane Creek IS2 headset. It's got a low stack height, crazy deep insertion, and bearings are easy to find if somthing was to happen to one. I like it.


I havn't used any of the FSAs you mentioned, but I've had a couple of their headsets, and they were solid.
 

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biking is fun
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i have the orbit z 1.5r. it is really smooth. the only problem that i have had is that the bottom o ring has gotten sucked into the bearing twice in the last 3 months.

the best way to figure out what one to use would be to figure out two things

what are you using it for? if you are more into pedaling and jumping then go for the zero stack, if you are strict dh/fr then go for the extreme
what fork are you using? fox 36 or bigger go with zero, fox 36 or smaller go with the orbit extreme.
that is obviously my opinion and it will help if you give us more info like the ones i asked.

i run a 36 with a zero and it feels perfect for me.
 

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'18 Transition Sentinel
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
climbingbubba said:
what are you using it for? if you are more into pedaling and jumping then go for the zero stack, if you are strict dh/fr then go for the extreme
what fork are you using? fox 36 or bigger go with zero, fox 36 or smaller go with the orbit extreme.
I'm planning on simply transfering my current fork '05 Z1 FR1 (150mm) onto BR, when I can get it (out until mid-Aug).

I have to "climb" to "FR" here, so it's mixed for your 1st question (What's the logic on that, again?), but my fork answers your 2nd question. Plus I've never used "zero stack", so I guess I'll stick to regular/stacking headset type of Orbit Xtreme 1.5R, then.

Thanks for your input on this,
- PiroChu
 
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The Big Fat Pig 1.5R is junk, I had one for about 3 months in my Dirtbag and could never get it to stop creaking no matter how tight or how much grease. I just picked up a Sunline V1 DH 1.5 reducer and its much better.
 

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not on a BR, but...

I found that the Pig, reduced for a 1 1/8, wouldn't stay tight, but using it for 1.5 it hasn't come loose. Don't know if this is a stem issue also since I use a different stem for each.

I've also used the e-13/CC IS2 bearing combo and the bearings got toasted fast. One reason I went with the Pig was easier bearing maintenance, bigger and stronger bearings, and cheaper parts for switching between 1.175 and 1.5. I've got a Xtreme 1.5 also but haven't installed it since I don't have the parts to switch to 1.175 in case of a fork emergency.

Another thing about the flush setup was the Fox 36 cleared my downtube but the marz 66 didn't, again not a BR, but worth mentioning...
 

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'18 Transition Sentinel
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1,015 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
FSA 1.5R - no more left?

Damn, I called around locally & online, and FSA 1.5R are all out (or phased out per not listed anymore on BTI or QBP?).

I don't know much about long-term reliability of Cane Creek or Sunline "reducer" headsets. I heard CK is coming up with one, but I can't wait that long.

:madman:
 

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airwreck said:
not on a BR, but...

I found that the Pig, reduced for a 1 1/8, wouldn't stay tight, but using it for 1.5 it hasn't come loose. Don't know if this is a stem issue also since I use a different stem for each.

I've also used the e-13/CC IS2 bearing combo and the bearings got toasted fast. One reason I went with the Pig was easier bearing maintenance, bigger and stronger bearings, and cheaper parts for switching between 1.175 and 1.5. I've got a Xtreme 1.5 also but haven't installed it since I don't have the parts to switch to 1.175 in case of a fork emergency.

Another thing about the flush setup was the Fox 36 cleared my downtube but the marz 66 didn't, again not a BR, but worth mentioning...
Thoughts:

It's interesting that your bearings didn't last long in the e13 setup. Mines only a few months old, but seems to be doing fine.

I talked to Transition about clearance, and they said that anything will work. 36, 66, whatever. My 36 isn't anywhere close. There's well over an inch of clearance.

1 1/8= 1.125. ;)
 

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'18 Transition Sentinel
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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Anyone using headset reducer with regular 1-1/8" headset?

Or, alternatively, anyone using one of those instead, plus your good-ol' standard 1-1/8" headset (external, not internal)?

This way, I don't have to waste my current 1-1/8" Chris King headset, either. (Right?)

Problem Solver


FSA


Anyone has pic of this installed with regular headset (external, not internal) with it?

Thanks,
- PiroChu

PS.
Just ordered a BR now!! Can't wait for their next shipment to arrive, so the UPS can bring one to me! :)
 

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i like rocks
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when it came time to make my decision, i went with Cane Creeks Double XC Flush.

i couldn't possably tell ya why they call it a "Double XC", becouse its dang sure no XC kind of part...

but anyways, its been flawless, and out of the box i was very impressed with its design and construction.

i would skip on the reducer cups. those reducer cups take away any advantage you have with the 1.5 headtube. either use a 1.5 steerer (stiffer steerer) or use a reducer headset (big burly bearings).
 

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'18 Transition Sentinel
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1,015 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
geometry (HT angle) with "stacked" vs "flush" headset ?

euroford said:
i went with Cane Creeks Double XC Flush.
climbingbubba said:
if you are more into pedaling and jumping then go for the zero stack, if you are strict dh/fr then go for the extreme
That reminds me...

According to the website, BR has HT angle of 67 degrees, based on 540mm axle-crown.

#1 --- Is "axle-crown" measured from the axle to where exactly; to top of fork crown, or to bottom of bottom-headset piece, or to bottom of headtube?

#2 --- Will the headset that's "stacked" vs "flush" change the geometry (headtube angle)?

#3 --- If so, it that "67 degrees" figure based on using "stacked" or "flush" headset?

I've heard that, in general, 1" of additional travel in fork roughly slacks about 1 degree in headtube. So, depending on the answers to above, I could end up slightly closer to a slacker 66-degree HT angle by using reducer plus my stacking C-King headset? :confused:

Thanks for your helpful info/advise in advance,
- PiroChu

PS.
euroford, how long have you been using your Cane Creek headset, just curious? Also, I read on Cane Creek website that it isn't "Double XC" (as in "cross country"), but rather "Double Xc" ("c" for "conversion"). A bit confusing... :p

euroford said:
i couldn't possably tell ya why they call it a "Double XC", becouse its dang sure no XC kind of part...
 

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i like rocks
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PiroChu said:
That reminds me...

According to the website, BR has HT angle of 67 degrees, based on 540mm axle-crown.
i don't know the exact answer to that question, but fwiw, a fox 36 and flush headset seams to be 'the ticket' for myself and plenty of others.

PiroChu said:
euroford, how long have you been using your Cane Creek headset, just curious? Also, I read on Cane Creek website that it isn't "Double XC" (as in "cross country"), but rather "Double Xc" ("c" for "conversion"). A bit confusing... :p
yeah i figured there was something up with that, a rather bizare naming convention, well whatever. i've only been beating on the thing for about a month, but i do ride daily and i do ride hard. i even commute on the thing, so she gets 2+, 4' or higher drops to flat concrete in the city ever day. its one of the last parts i expect to have a problem with. very nice craftsmanship.
 

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hands down internal is the way to go. i have the fsa z1.5r and no problems at all. Its basically internal cup reducers like e-thirteen(not as burley) with a lower stack height. The internal reducer creates a more stable cup for the bearings to seat. Not to mention there is nothing exposed so the cups cant get smacked up. You also decrease the distance between the bearings so the steerer has less leverage and less stress on the bearing.

I have installed a normal 1 1/8th headset using those reducer cups. I just wasnt comfortable with it. There were too many variables-to many issues that could arise, not to mention the problem solver was not of the highest quality. Having to seat basically 2 sets of cups while increasing the stack height...not for me.

An internal reducer style headset is going to be more reliable and strong enough to handle most setups/riders.

When i was putting together my br I was concerned that the slack ht would require a stronger headset and was leaning toward pig dh but after talking to transition and a little research of my own the internal was the way to go.

best pic i got showing headset
 
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The Sunline headsets are actually really really well made. SUPER tight tolerances, just an example, it took me 3hrs to get it installed on my Dirtbag because the crown race didnt want to fit inside the bearing while it was on the fork. If it was off the fork, there was not a problem, but once expanded onto the steerer tube, it was a major pain in the a$$. Once it was all installed though I could tell the difference from the FSA immediately. Super smooth, well sealed and light:)
 

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so how did you manage to install the crown race inside the bearing??:thumbsup:

sixsixtysix said:
The Sunline headsets are actually really really well made. SUPER tight tolerances, just an example, it took me 3hrs to get it installed on my Dirtbag because the crown race didnt want to fit inside the bearing while it was on the fork. If it was off the fork, there was not a problem, but once expanded onto the steerer tube, it was a major pain in the a$$. Once it was all installed though I could tell the difference from the FSA immediately. Super smooth, well sealed and light:)
 

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'18 Transition Sentinel
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1,015 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
HT angle

PiroChu said:
According to the website, BR has HT angle of 67 degrees, based on 540mm axle-crown.
Just called Transition about this published HT-angle spec, and - if I understood correctly - I guess it's meant that "the headtube angle is 67 degrees using the 540mm A-2-C fork, while assuming that you have a stacking (13~14mm?) lower headset cup under headtube." (Does that sound right?)

I also did a search and found out that my '05 Z1 FR1 (150mm) has 538mm A-2-C. (close enough to 540mm)

So, if I used a zero-stack headset (ie. Cane Creek Double Xc Flush or Sunline V-1), then would my headtube angle actually be a bit steeper than the spec'ed 67 degrees, slightly closer to 68 degrees...?

Do I have that correctly? :confused:
- PiroChu
 

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More Riding Less Internet
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PiroChu said:
Or, alternatively, anyone using one of those instead, plus your good-ol' standard 1-1/8" headset (external, not internal)?

This way, I don't have to waste my current 1-1/8" Chris King headset, either. (Right?)

Problem Solver


FSA


Anyone has pic of this installed with regular headset (external, not internal) with it?

Thanks,
- PiroChu

PS.
Just ordered a BR now!! Can't wait for their next shipment to arrive, so the UPS can bring one to me! :)
that's actually what I use on my BR with a Z.1 it keeps the front end in the right place for the shorter travel fork.

Kyle,
 
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