Front wheel control in really tricky rooty stuff

I have a hard time envisioning the scenario you're trying to describe beyond the fact that there are lots of roots. They're rubbed smooth from traffic. Some poke up a good bit. And sometimes there are turns.

The way it reads to me, is that you need to work on your technique. Turning on smooth roots (esp when wet) is treacherous at best. Your line selection needs to be dialed and your skills strong enough to hit exactly in the right spot to minimize the chances of sliding out. You need to utilize a lot of upper body weight shifts to keep your tires lightly weighted in spots with poor traction. You don't want to slide out sideways up front, but you also don't want a sudden spin-out in the back. You're going to need a full toolbox of front wheel lifts. There are several different types that all involve different body movements to make them happen. And they're useful in different scenarios. Just because your front wheel is in the air doesn't mean you've done a manual. A manual is only one specific way to get your front wheel up. If the roots are nasty enough, you might even need some trialsy hopping skills to be able to change your position in the roots without having problems with your tires sliding.

There may be some equipment things you can address, but it's definitely not primarily equipment. It's primarily skill.

Equipment things that might help:
*Tire pressure adjustments. If your tires deform/flex around the roots, you'll have better traction when riding over them. I won't say "good" traction, because that'll never happen. But "good enough" might if you combine riding skills.
*Larger volume tires. The more volume your tires have, the more capacity they have to flex around roots/rocks. There is a relationship between tire size and tire pressure, as well. Bigger tires will take lower pressures.
*Soft rubber compound on your tires. The softer the compound, the better they will grip smooth/slippery stuff.
*Suspension settings. Especially if you're trying to ride through this stuff at speed, suspension settings (adjusting what you have for your body weight and riding conditions) will play a role. Less so replacing the fork altogether, unless the old one lacked the ability to adjust it.

JPSeuropa said:

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Anyway, most of my riding is in an area will lots of short ups and downs, narrow trails and oh so many roots. ...

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Sounds kinda like our trails....

When I hit a root/root pile/root ball I try to get really light. It's almost a bunny hop, but maybe it's more of a front wheel lift followed extremely closely by a rear wheel lift. Basically, the front tire is just nicking the top of that slippery root/pile/ball and I'm pushing it down the backside and lightening the rear. That way you have a little control via the rear wheel until your front wheel clears it, then you have your front wheel to lean on.

Other people I ride with have kind of a porpoise move - that I cannot do - where they just sort of lunge and ride off the back of it on their front tire for a moment. It's a very useful move on small logs and on obstacles that are right before a turn. That way your front tire can be tracking into the turn before your rear tire clears the obstacle. The way I do it, I can't technically turn for real until my rear tire clears.

It takes some practice, but it is not that hard.

Good luck!

-F

PS - If I remember, I'll try to get a pic of a local tree gap. There is no dirt between the trees. Just polished wood. To clear it, you have to be lined up pretty well, not going too slow, and you have to make sure that your front tire gets through. The backside is still sketchy, but it has a "spot" in either direction of travel where you can ping your front wheel in the correct direction. But if you're too heavy on the entrance, you can't hit the exit line because your front wheel will deflect - and if you are too heavy on your rear wheel, you will either hook it on something or deflect that as well. I kind of float through that one on my good days. On a bad day, I get a tree in the shoulder, or I run wide on the exit into some stickers. 😁

You guys have summed up the issues. It has gotten worse due to Covid traffic. There is no room for bike and rider at same time and with bike shoes I am likely to fall even if I tried. I have been considering working on it all armored up. I think you are right....I need to get comfortable with the idea of falling. Still coming off rotator cuff injury from last spring so I am a bit sheepish when the price of failure is high and the odds of success are not good. With armor, I guess the worst thing that happens is that I fall off the crumbling edge into the lake. Its not high, but it is deep enough that a total soaking is in the cards. Did I mention the lake? I had considered a rigid bike to work on it, but it is out on long-term loan...I think its about 1000 miles away right now. Bike is a 2013 Stumpjumper EVO Expert. Rear shock is Rockshox Monarch RT-3. Front fork is new Fox 34 with Grip2. Geo is somewhat modern with slackish head angle. Rear swingarm is not modern being pretty long. Bike has a longish wheelbase for a large.

JPSeuropa said:

You guys have summed up the issues. It has gotten worse due to Covid traffic. There is no room for bike and rider at same time and with bike shoes I am likely to fall even if I tried. I have been considering working on it all armored up. I think you are right....I need to get comfortable with the idea of falling. Still coming off rotator cuff injury from last spring so I am a bit sheepish when the price of failure is high and the odds of success are not good. With armor, I guess the worst thing that happens is that I fall off the crumbling edge into the lake. Its not high, but it is deep enough that a total soaking is in the cards. Did I mention the lake? I had considered a rigid bike to work on it, but it is out on long-term loan...I think its about 1000 miles away right now. Bike is a 2013 Stumpjumper EVO Expert. Rear shock is Rockshox Monarch RT-3. Front fork is new Fox 34 with Grip2. Geo is somewhat modern with slackish head angle. Rear swingarm is not modern being pretty long. Bike has a longish wheelbase for a large.

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You haven't mentioned yet the speeds you're dealing with in this section. That does make a difference with the techniques you'll use to negotiate it.

It's also worth noting that armor does GREAT at protecting against cuts and scrapes. it's less good at protecting against broken bones (a lot will depend on which armor you're using), and even less good at protecting against joint injuries. so, really give that rotator cuff plenty of time to heal, and then ease your way back into things.

when you do, though, you need to commit when you ride stuff like this. being shaky or uncertain will definitely mean you don't clean it. I'd spend some time sessioning things that don't get into your head. whether it means sections that are less technical, or they have lower consequences for failure (no possibility of having a tumble into the water, for example), or both. use that to build your confidence. watching other riders clean the section can also help. gives you ideas about the lines you should be looking at, the speeds you need to carry through, and if you watch the rider closely, how they're shifting their bodies and when, the timing of pedal strokes, all of it.

Take a photo or 2 or even a short video. Show us the section. It is near on impossible to offer effective advice blind. Are you roots dry or wet when you have this challenge.

Also what is your bike, how is it set up and what tires are you running.

That said, I hand donkey deep in wet roots the size of you teachers legs a school on most rides. I love it and seek out root tracks on purpose.

Here is some generic advice.

Speed is you friend when riding roots. You need the momentum to get through the section. Work on your entry speed.
You cant be conservative when riding big roots sections. It's all in full commitment or dont ride them at all.... if you worry about injury and go in half committed (which sounds like what you are doing), that is more dangerous than full commitment.

Tire pressure also critical. Most people run too much pressure. Particularly in the wet. You need the least amount o pressure practical without getting tire squirm in burms or bottoming the tire out on the rim. Too much tire pressure and tou will ping off the roots in all directions. I've lost count at the amount of times I've let mates tires down and they have marvelled at how much easier It is to ride roots at the correct pressure.

2.5" tires work better across roots that 2.3's
Using a sticky rubber on the front tire noticeably improves wet room riding performance. My tire of choice is a 2.5" minion max grip.

Look at the section and try and figure out the line. Line choice will make and break a root section. It's not always the straight through line. Watch other guys hit the section and see what their line is. Give that a go.

The best root riding advice is aim for the V in the roots and hit that