[hollisimo]

This is my first season specifically training for races & I've been reading the Friel book in conjunction with some great online info, mostly here on mtbr.com :thumbsup: After two months base training, I've finally got around to measuring my LTHR, using Friel's 30 min time trial method on an indoor trainer (not ideal, but my only option). So I find my LTHR is 190, which was about 15 beats higher than I thought it would be. My MHR is 199, and i'm a 35 yo. So looking at the Friel chart this morning I nearly choked on my rice crispies to see that the recommended HR zone 2 for my LSD is 157-168, or 79-84% of my MHR. I had been running my LSD rides at about 72%, Infact specifically avoiding the 80-85% range for two reasons- as I'd read several places that this is the "no mans land", and also as I rise through 82% I feel something funny happen in my body, which I think is a change in bloodpressure, it feels weird & I don't like it. I feel more comfortable from about 85% upwards.

At 191 beats, I'm toward the end of the Friel table. In mid table the zone 2 seems closer to 75%-80%. Should I go with Friel & increase my LSD ride zone or am I missing some crucial element here that's risking over-training?

 

[MrEconomics]

So my understanding is that your LTHR is only 9 beats lower than your max? I'm not an expert on HR, but I think I'd take that 30 minute test again.

I used Friels method while on a trainer too and had consistent results with Friels chart. They only time my LTHR came out slightly different (3-5 beats) was when I measured it during a race (I had a seperate HR monitor that I used to track LTHR).

 

[hollisimo]

OK so what did I do wrong? I warmed up slowly to 79%, then went hell for leather for 10mins, started my HRM recording, realised I couldn't keep the start pace up so dropped back about 40watts, stopped when my HRM reached the 20min mark. I think it just might be accurate, during my 'propper' outdoor trail rides once a week or so, I'm able to ride for prolonged periods (2.5-3 hours) averaging 87%, (though it seems like every time I look at my watch I'm doing 93%+). I'm no purebred racer though, my average wattage is very low- 234w for that 30min timetrial.

 

[Dirthound]

Your LTHR may appear to be higher indoors if you didn't have a fan to cool you off, since your heart will beat faster to help cool your skin, even though your effort stays the same.

Zone 2 training for me is pretty much about 80% of my highest max HR ever actually observed.

How did you determine maximum HR? Not from a chart, right?

 

[hollisimo]

Your LTHR may appear to be higher indoors if you didn't have a fan to cool you off, since your heart will beat faster to help cool your skin, even though your effort stays the same.

Zone 2 training for me is pretty much about 80% of my highest max HR ever actually observed.

How did you determine maximum HR? Not from a chart, right?

That might explain it. Is there any rule of thumb for how much indoor training without a fan adds to your HR?

My max HR was determined using a monitor.

 

[xray_ed]

For another method of determining your AT, google "conconi test". You can do it on your trainer.

 

[MrEconomics]

Doing the LTHR test on a trainer sucks. Nothing more exciting then going balls out while staring at a wall. LOL.

 

[xray_ed]

Doing the LTHR test on a trainer sucks. Nothing more exciting then going balls out while staring at a wall. LOL.

Yeah, hurts like he** too! Thing is, you can have someone there to document your HR & power (or speed) with each one minute incriment. They can also try to determine your "ventalitory threshold".

Besides, if I had to do it on the road, I'd crash for sure!

 

[kngpengwin]

190 sounds like a pretty high LTHR to me, but I could be wrong.

I'd try doing the test outdoors if possible, or find a proper lab that can do it with blood draws, etc.

when I did the Friel test, my LTHR was a lot closer to what I'd expect it to be for my level of training and race finishes.

 

[Overkill]

It sounds a bit high for a LT when comparing to a max hr of 199.

As a comparison, my max hr is 201, and my LT is 182. So...my zone 2 is in the 145 to 157 kind of range.

I get the results of this test by doing a weekly time trial on a tri bike (outside). This is a very accurate method in my opinion.

I'll test sometime in April/May when series starts up again.

 

[hollisimo]

OK sounds like I need to repeat the test under better circumstances. Thanks to all for the inputs.

 

[Poncharelli]

"I'm no purebred racer though, my average wattage is very low- 234w for that 30min timetrial."

If you have access to power, why do you care about heart rate??

Train with power instead.

 

[hollisimo]

My big problem with training for endurance events in the past was a propensity to overtrain, using a HRM gives me an objective view on that. I have been keeping power records though but more so to track progress. I have realized in the last week though that my biggest obstacle to winning races is lack of power, so I need to work on that. I will look into the whole training with power mire closely now, thanks.

 

[Poncharelli]

Start with this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1931382794

Excellent stuff!! It even mentions some of Friel's principles concerning critical power (CP). First 5 chapters are excellent, then it gets a bit technical. The data analysis chapters will probably make more sense once I get some practice analyzing data.

 

[kevbikemad]

cold coming

i have experienced higher results if I am about to catch a cold or the flu. i have had races were i did not do well, but my average HR was way higher than normal. next, sick.

 

[BMXspears]

I determined my LT by my average hr in a race. I also train with a friel plan. My LT is about 193 and the highest heart rate I've ever had was 216. I'm 23 BTW.

 

[gregz12]

How trained are you?

The HR does seem very high, but if you've never done any serious training it sounds more feasible.

Any formula based zone assessment makes assumptions. They usually assume someone is some what trained and has developed some base. If you haven't developed you're base at all, it would lay under the calculated value.

On top of this you did the test on the trainer. My personal ride data seems to indicate an elevated HR of 3 to 5bpm on a trainer for a given power level. Were you coming down with something, stress, highly caffeinated, smoking, or in high sleep debt? All of those factors will raise the old HR. Riding right after a meal will also up the old HR.

How did you determine you're MHR?

Anyway I would repeat the test once you feel strong. For endurance rides you can never really go wrong with 145 to 150bpm. Data geeks won't like that, but for a rough approximation it works.

 

[RideToLive]

Careful not to overtrain

I determined my LT by my average hr in a race. I also train with a friel plan. My LT is about 193 and the highest heart rate I've ever had was 216. I'm 23 BTW.

It's my experience that AVG HR in a MTB XC Race is reatively high as compared to 20km-40km TT HR. The partial, and sometimes full anaerobic efforts can yield misleading HR Data. If you train based on these Heart Rates, you can easily be overcome early in the training cycle/season.

 

[BMXspears]

It's my experience that AVG HR in a MTB XC Race is reatively high as compared to 20km-40km TT HR. The partial, and sometimes full anaerobic efforts can yield misleading HR Data. If you train based on these Heart Rates, you can easily be overcome early in the training cycle/season.

Understood. But there is no way you could average about your LT for 2.5 hours.

I'm pretty confident in my zones, as I can ride in the low 190's on the road for much longer than 5 minutes, which is most people's limit when anaerobic.

 

[jalopy jockey]

Understood. But there is no way you could average about your LT for 2.5 hours.

I'm pretty confident in my zones, as I can ride in the low 190's on the road for much longer than 5 minutes, which is most people's limit when anaerobic.

A uber fit person can hold their AT for 30minutes, Which does imply I may agree with you. As most people are obese, and severely out of shape.