[strak636]

alright guys, have ridden 9months on these including 2 months in the Alps, with only foam ring clean and services done (3 times). It was v dusty out there - suspension service specialists recommeding new stanchions, bushes and full service.

Question is, is the increase in stiction caused from the worn coating on the sliders (not visible to me) or they just need lubing up foam rings...

I will be getting the full £300 service done :madmax: but want to wait before the summer...

cheers

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

What exactly were these 3 services? Did they replenish the bath oil? Did you check to see if there was bath oil in there in the first place? The likely thing here is that your fork was delivered dry, like many other Fox 36's. Even if you have some oil from the factory, it will run out fast. Faster if you ride hard because the seal is designed to weep oil onto the stanchion while operating. Even the Fox service of seal cleaning only adds enough oil to partially fill the foam, and not really replenish the bath.

If it was very dusty, it's also likely that could have exploited the Fox seals, which are not good for dusty conditions. They don't keep small particles out, and coupled with the oil slick on the stanchions, readily bring crap inside and packs it inside the seal against the stanchion face. Even after cleaning the seal, when I pulled them off, there was still grit in there not accessible unless the seal was completely removed from a completely disassembled fork.

 

[his dudeness]

The Talas forks are notorious for bad stiction. It's mainly due to all the extra seals and internals. Get a full rebuild on it and you'll be fine.

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

I have to refute that. WHen I took my TALAS side apart, I greased the seals using a slick teflon-bearing grease. It is nearly as smooth as my zokes. There is a very tight seal for the IFP to mount onto the shaft and that was especially sticky.

I guess it doesn't matter now since my IFP doesn't really move. It's somewhere near the top of the chamber and only the outer seal is the one that encounters sliding.

I've oiled the system once and it helped greatly as well. However, the biggest difference came in adding the oil in the first place. However, the comment about the bad stiction is neither here nor there in this case. The OP has worn bushings and stanchions according to the repair center. That needs to be addressed, not what you think TALAS forks are notorious for.

 

[Clutchman83]

Even if you have some oil from the factory, it will run out fast. Faster if you ride hard because the seal is designed to weep oil onto the stanchion while operating. Even the Fox service of seal cleaning only adds enough oil to partially fill the foam, and not really replenish the bath.

Dammit, your too fast. My money is on this. I bet it was delivered dry and subsequently wrecked through riding it.

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

Dammit, your too fast. My money is on this. I bet it was delivered dry and subsequently wrecked through riding it.

Hey, I got lucky. I am on vacation at home, so I rode today, then put up shelves in my storage room. In between installation messes in there, I had to come back here to keep me sane.

 

[strak636]

What exactly were these 3 services?

Not properly serviced, i just pulled the dust seals off, cleaned and relubed the foam rings with oil...
I suspect you are right they came dry and have been abused in dusty conidtions hence the stanchion and bush wear

well ive tried a foam ring clean and relube tonight so hopfully this will last to a proper overhaul befor ethe summer.
When you say they come dry, do you need a full strip to correct this or is it just the foam rings your referencing?

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

It requires a strip down to verify. You might have oil out of the box, or you might not. The bath is very small on both sides, and it can run out real quick. Unless you have enduro seals on there, Fox forks aren't the ones to get to think you can just set and forget it, with respect to lubricating bath oil. The oil will deplete over time, and with harder, more frequent riding, it would be smart to have some kind of oil around. The bath can use shock oil, motor oil, or whatever if you're in a pinch. I wouldn't be surprised if I could use motor oil, though I haven't used it in the bath myself.

Hopefully the bath can help, but I've been warning people about this for the last year since I found out and I'm quite glad I tinkered with my fork and wasn't satisfied with the performance. I could be in the same boat as you needing stanchions and bushings.

WHat are your symptoms of the worn stanchions?

 

[strak636]

WHat are your symptoms of the worn stanchions?

I dont know! I cant tell they're worn but mojo say they are. They were so stif fin the ALps that I was getting no sag whatsoever, until I relubed the rings. They imporved dramatically but then stiffened yp agian pretty fast. Im hoping the relube ive done tonight will sort it.

When you talking about the oil bath, where is this exactly? Is it part of the cartridge inside the fork or external lubrucation?

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

The oil bath is inside the legs, and in fact, it's right underneath the foams. While you're riding, it's what replenishes the foam and the foam prevents excess oil from going up through the seal. Putting only a few drops onto the foam will only last so long before it's gone.

I'm willing to bet you have no bath oil and the fork is essentially seizing.

 

[myarmisonfire]

I dont know! I cant tell they're worn but mojo say they are. They were so stif fin the ALps that I was getting no sag whatsoever, until I relubed the rings. They imporved dramatically but then stiffened yp agian pretty fast. Im hoping the relube ive done tonight will sort it.

When you talking about the oil bath, where is this exactly? Is it part of the cartridge inside the fork or external lubrucation?

My guess without seeing your fork is that your stanchions aren't that worn. The coating on the stanchions is very thin and a small amount of wear will be visible. If you look around at the base of any lift at the bike parks you will see people with wear on their stanchions. It looks like bare aluminum because that is what it is!
It also sounds like £300 is a lot for a service...

 

[climbingbubba]

My local bike shop said that if you have leaky seals and you dont take care of them then the dirt and crap that get in the seals will tear up your stanchions. if thats the case then that sucks, those things are expensive.

jerk chicken - i need to replace my seals soon, do you suggest enduro's? they are pretty cheap. also they suggest multi viscosity synthetic motor oil which is easy to find.
any thoughts? there is a foot of snow outside so i can wait to get them in the mail.

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

Yes, I recommend Enduros. You can use the motor oil. Make sure you grease up the oil seal well and grease the space between the oil and dust seal with a slick grease for best results.

 

[buckoW]

If your stanchions are worn then you can see vertical lines caused by the bushings. Starts down by the seals and then migrates upwards. Try putting a bit of oil in there. Did you put too much air in them for the Alps? 300£ seems like a lot of cash for a rebuild.

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

Thanks for that tip, bucko. Makes sense, as the bushings have vertical cuts in them for oil flow.

300 doesn't seem like a lot, considering in USD, the stanchion assembly for a TALAS runs 275$, and with the pound crashing and labor, they seem to have run an even amount for the replacement with seals and bushings.

However, I'm interested in seeing if the stanchions do in fact need replacing. I have said it before and many don't want to admit it, but if you ride in bad conditions, from small, particulate dust, mud, and also don't constantly want to replenish the lost bath oil and clean the fork and the seals, get enduros. When I opened my fork, some 9-10 months after installing them and actually adding oil, the oil came out still very clean.

I have read in various threads and forums about the prematurely worn stanchions, especially on the air side. I had a theory sometime last year that this was also related to the no/low oil delivery on these forks, especially since the air side typically had no oil on several examples, and most of the stanchion wear was on that side. Regardless, it's bad to run a fork with no oil and grit inside the oem seals.

 

[strak636]

on closer inspection, I am seeing some of these vertical lines on the lower portion of the stanchions which ties up with wear from the bushes...and yes £300 in anybodies book is a lot considering I could probably pick a new one up for 550!

I certainly wont be gettin another Fox. My 888s have taken an equivalent beating, had no servicing whatsoever, and are smoother than the day I bought them.
If only MZ could sort their 55ATA out hmmmm

Heres to hoping the copius amounts of fluid (too much non doubt) I put on the rings gets me to nearer the summer for a full rebuild. Hoping it will spit any excess out onto the sliders so I can just wipe off 1st couple of rides...

cheers 4 the info guys appreciated

 

[strak636]

The oil bath is inside the legs, and in fact, it's right underneath the foams. While you're riding, it's what replenishes the foam and the foam prevents excess oil from going up through the seal. Putting only a few drops onto the foam will only last so long before it's gone.

I'm willing to bet you have no bath oil and the fork is essentially seizing.

JC> Regarding the oil bath you refer, how do you check this? Do you need to seperate the fork assembly or does lubing the foam rings have the same effect?

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

The damper is press fit into the lowers, so that side needs to be dislodged by hammering out according to Fox's instructions and instructions I've put up in the DIY section. That is the only difficult part. The TALAS side is easy to take apart. Just remove the foot nut. You might have oil down there, you might not. It's good to check.

The oil I'm talking about is a pool of oil at the bottom. It also bathes the foams from splashing and conduction upward, but also a note about that is one needs to turn these forks upside down or the top end will be dry for a lot of the rides until several full compressions are realized, something difficult with the 36 in its stock configuration. I spoke to Fox at EB and they agreed that the fork must be turned upside down to oil the foams and give proper lubrication for the beginning of rides. They even recommended going to 100mm and then compressing it fully to start the rides off.

Now just adding oil to the foams will only put a few ml's in there. And if you try to fill it from the top, you run the risk of overfilling it, so you need to know how much is in there, basically zero ML. Depending on how hard you ride, the oil bath will decrease with every ride. Perhaps not in one ride, but as I said, the seals are designed to weep a small amount of oil, in conjunction with the foams, which limit the amount of oil that the seals see. They need to be checked every so often and I found it odd that Fox listed a volume of oil to put into the foams. I believe this to be saying without saying the true reason: the 5ml or whatever it is at specific theoretical intervals is what they figure is lost through the seals, onto the stanchions and that volume will replenish it.

 

[AznRider]

Sorry to hijack your thread OP.
JC, i face stiction issues on my Van 36 as well. I have cleaned the wipers of my 4 month old Van36RC2 twice now and changed the oil bath(not the FIT damper) 2 weeks ago. Spring side was pretty dirty(oil less than 15ml measured) and right side oil seems clear though only measured about 10ml+
Have since refill both side with 25ml Fox damper fluids and it feels smoother though i still need to lube the stanchions weekly with same damper fluid(just 2-3 drops on each leg)
What can i do to improve the stiction problem? tx.

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

I would go for a fluid change all around, including the damper.

When everything is apart, make sure to clean the seal cavity that faces the stanchions, if you're using the OEM Fox. Their directions don't tell you that there is a round cavity and even when cleaned on the fork, there is still grit packed in there the electrical tape won't reach.

I don't know if it helps, but I used a slick teflon grease on the bushings in my last teardown, along with filling the space between my upper and lower Enduros with it. A very thin, almost imperceptible film is left on the stanchion faces. What worries me about greasing the sealing faces on the Fox wipers is that they readily let dirt in and if that cavity is filled with lube, the grit will stick to the top, against the stanchion.

In the FIT damper, just grease the piston and the BO pistons (Provided yours is an 08) and then get some on the damper shaft. At that point, you have done everything you can. There are some u-seals at the bottom of the stanchion that can get lubed in the air models, but I don't know if the VAN models have them. You could also grease the spring very lightly.

Try also turning your fork upside down. That could help, especially if the bike isn't ridden for a few days. The oil will drain down, and to some extent, out of the foams.