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Not sure what fork to use. I'm going to build either a SC Blur LT or SC Nomad. Not sure what Fork I should use. I currently have a Fox Vanilla (100mm) on my SS, it rides sweet no complaints. But I was reading on the PIKE and it "SOUNDS" good and comparible to the Fox Vanilla. The PIKE has 140mm of travel, only 10mm more than the Fox Vanilla. I would do the Vanilla hands down but if the PIKE rides better and is just as good and plush as the Fox I'd go w/ the PIKE! ... but again Ive never ridden a PIKE.

Your thoughs? Pros & Cons???

Thanks!
 

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No, that's not phonetic
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I have an older Vanilla RLC, a Pike Team U-Turn coil, and a Pike Race Air. I don't care for the behavior of the coil Pike. Too linear. The Pike Air is extremely nice, however, and the Team Air would weigh a touch less than the Vanilla, would be less expensive, more tuneable, give you a 20mm thru-axle, a stiffer chassis overall, and would likely balance the Nomad's rear very well. The Vanilla may be a good choice for the Blur LT. I agree the Vanilla's are excellent forks and pretty much the trailbike standard. They are also super reliable. My Pike Air offers a very similar feeling ride, so if you like that stroke action but want a bit "more" fork, take a peek at the Air. If you want a Pike Team coil, mine is for sale.
 

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a.k.a. MTBMaven
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PIKE Quality?

tscheezy,

What's your take on the quality of the PIKE? I see you have several versions of it so you must like it to some degree. I also know you're a big Marzocchi fan as well.

I about to get a 575 with RP3. I have a Vanilla 125 RL right now on an Enduro. From what I've read the 575 performs nicely with the Vanilla but really well with a 6" fork. So I'm trying to decide what fork to get. I really want a 20 mm axel. The ability to adjust the height would be nice for longer technical climbs as well. I weight 195 and ~205 with gear. I see several good deals on used forks like yours and two '04 Zoc Z1 SLs. I'd love to get something new like a 36 or '05 Z1 but that's big time cash.
 

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No, that's not phonetic
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mtnfiend said:
So I'm trying to decide what fork to get.
Ask me in a year if the Pikes are holding up. Unless it does come apart at the seams soon, I really won't know for a while how they hold up. It looks like a solid and well made fork, but there is no way to tell what long term durability is.

I have ridden a 575 with a Minute 3 and a 36. The Vanilla is similar in height to the Minute. The Pike is between the 36 and the Vanilla/Minute. The Vanilla height gives a very nice sporty ride. More XC feeling, but the Vanillas are obviously very plush and high quality forks. The Pike would be a lot of fun on the 575 though, and if I were to kit a Yeti out I would probably go that route.

That said, I cannot recommend the coil Pikes, especially at your weight you are up there in mid-x-firm spring land and in my experience if you ride it hard you are going to bottom it. The Pike Air seems like it has a much better spring progression and behavior and I like mine a lot. It lacks travel adjust though, and won't get it until 2006. If you want travel adjust, wait. If not, get the Air now.
 

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a.k.a. MTBMaven
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Z1s?

tscheezy,

Thanks for the response. What's your take on the various '04 Z1's? In '05 there are only 3 models (Z1 FR I ETA, Z1 FR II, Z1 FR III), but for '04 there were 7 (Z150 FR, Z150 FR SL, Z1 FR SL, Z1 FR, Z1 Drop-Off I, Z1 Drop-Off II, Z1 Wedge). With so many choises it hard to know what would work well with the 575 from the '04 line-up.

UPDATE: Okay never mind on that question. Based on the stats on Marzocchi's web site for their '04 Z1 line up the only Z1 that fits what I'm looking for is the Z150 FR or the Z150 SL. Both have 150mm of travel, a 20 MM axel. Though the Z150 FR looks like the champ, 150MM of travel, 20mm axel, height adjustment, and coil. Now it's a matter of seeing if I can find a good deal on one.
 

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it's....
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I'd take tscheezy's Pike coil opinions with a grain of salt.
He seems to be one of very few who has problem with coiled Pike bottoming.
I don't do big drops, but my Pike SL does not come close to bottoming on 3 ft drops, with compression damping wide open in full plush mode.
I run stock spring, rated for 140-160 lb rider, and I weight 170 with riding gears/camelbak, for reference.
 

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Strafer said:
I'd take tscheezy's Pike coil opinions with a grain of salt.
Oh really? Then please fill us in on the mechanism in the pike that makes it progressive. I'll give you a hint, marzocchi uses the air assist spring, and manitou uses SPV.

Oh wait, that's right, there is no mechanism in the pike to make it progressive, so tcheezy's comments must be spot on.
 

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Jm. said:
Oh really? Then please fill us in on the mechanism in the pike that makes it progressive. I'll give you a hint, marzocchi uses the air assist spring, and manitou uses SPV.

Oh wait, that's right, there is no mechanism in the pike to make it progressive, so tcheezy's comments must be spot on.
I never mentioned progressivity, only bottoming out for a few folks.
Relax man, I don't want another brand loyalty war thread happening.
It seems tscheezy's coil pikes are defective if they bottom so easy on him, that's all I'm saying.
 

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Strafer said:
I never mentioned progressivity, only bottoming out for a few folks.
Relax man, I don't want another brand loyalty war thread happening.
It seems tscheezy's coil pikes are defective if they bottom so easy on him, that's all I'm saying.
What keeps a fork from bottoming out? Progressivness. You did mention progressiveness because you mentioned bottoming out.

If it's linear, and you get near full travel while riding normal surfaces, and then you take it off a drop, it's going to bottom. The only way to avoid that is to have a progressive fork, which a few companies just haven't caught onto yet.

Tcheezy's pikes are not defective if they are bottoming because the fork isn't progressive. That's what a linear fork will do, if you take it on a bigger drop, or hit it right, it will bottom.
 

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No, that's not phonetic
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I do also find it odd that I am the only one here with Pike coil bottoming issues so I think it is reasonable to take my experience with a grain of salt. That is why I say I cannot recommend them.

I could take the MC damper unit out of the coil and put it in the air fork (they are the same) and see if the behavior is different and possibly attributable to the damper. Really, the only "defective" thing I could think of would be a wildly out-of-spec coil (too low a rate), but then I think I would see more sag than my current 16%. Dunno.

The result of the switch in spring medium (coil verses air) behavior between the two forks was very obvious though.

I posted a video of riding in Alaska in which I am running the Pike Air. I am quite impressed with the fork, I must say.

The Video

If you want to watch the vid, right click the link and download it to your computer to watch. It is a 20mb file.
 

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Jm. said:
Tcheezy's pikes are not defective if they are bottoming because the fork isn't progressive. That's what a linear fork will do, if you take it on a bigger drop, or hit it right, it will bottom.
You sound like an expert on how Pike rides, even though you don't own one.
So I've been hitting it all wrong, because I don't bottom. :rolleyes:
Thank you very much for enlightening me, I shall try my hardest to "hit it right" and bottom it out!
 

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Jm. said:
What keeps a fork from bottoming out? Progressivness. You did mention progressiveness because you mentioned bottoming out.

If it's linear, and you get near full travel while riding normal surfaces, and then you take it off a drop, it's going to bottom. The only way to avoid that is to have a progressive fork, which a few companies just haven't caught onto yet.

Tcheezy's pikes are not defective if they are bottoming because the fork isn't progressive. That's what a linear fork will do, if you take it on a bigger drop, or hit it right, it will bottom.
Actually JM- You're 100% WRONG on this one dude. As it turns out the Pike coil is a progressively sprung fork. It doesn't have the same progression a Zoke with high oil height has, but progression none the less. This progression (despite Tscheezy's tests) can be altered to a certain extent by the oil volume in the damper. This progression doesn't become evident until the last 1.5in of travel.

I did a oil change and found my damper was slightly over filled from the factory. This may explain why I can do 6 ft drops to flat and not hit bottom hard. You can feel the progression of the damper if you remove the coil spring and compress the fork. It actually ramps up pretty substantially without taking away much from the linear feel of the first 3/4 of travel.

------------------------------

On top of that, since when is linear travel a bad thing? The Pike is a pretty linear feling fork for the most of its travel. I prefere that feeling over how most Zokes feel. Zokes don't respond as plushly on steep decents as a more linear fork, where your body weight pushes through most of the plushness. I've had to run the oil level too low on all of my Zokes for a linear feel, but they tended to bottom out hard.

By the pure deffinition of linear travel, it doesn't increase the rate of negative acceleration, thus no spike in fork plushness. Super progressive forks have an increase in negative acceleration slope, which equals a less than ideal spring curve for fork compliance.

IMO, progression is only good in dialing bottom out resistance, otherwise it is not an ideal setup for fork bump compliance and the acceleration of impact from coil compression.
 
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