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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I do have a 07 Talas RC2 since 2006 which doesn't exactly work they way I prefer.

First, the small bump sensitivity was really bad and the travel adjust didn't work as supposed, the fork never really extended back to full travel. Seems as if that was due to missing oil, after a tuning and service break the fork came back and seemed to work. Small bumps were nicely swallowed, the travel adjustment works nicely now.
So finally I got to get closer to a real setup. Right now I can't get the fork to use all the travel. Of the 160mm that are available, I don't use more than 135-140mm most of the time, the maximum is something like 145mm. The fork dives further only when I depressurize it completely. Not satisfying.
This would have been acceptable if the brake dive wasn't as bad as it is. When I hit the brakes hard, the fork dives ~125-130mm, so it leaves literally no reserve for any bumps when I brake hard. When I'm just rolling through some obstacles there's no problem, but as soon as I try to go somewhat faster I'm the suspension myself, using my arms and the little travel my handlebar gives me.
I tried less air pressure, the fork still doesn't use full travel. I tried low speed compression damping against the brake dive, but it only killed the sensitivity for the biggest part. It dives a little less, but then feels really harsh and I use even less travel then.

So, is there any (maybe known?) defect that makes the fork ramp up for the last part of the travel like this? Is there anything I might do for the brake dive?

I had a Van RC2 before this Talas fork and it worked like it was supposed to, no excessive brake dive and I was able to use the full travel (~155mm of 160, that's ok). I didn't search for a new one so far as I haven't lost hope yet, also now that I know it I really like the travel adjust thingy.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm stuck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My fault, I didn't say that. Yes I did try adding air, more air and less compression damping. But even with the least compression damping available I can't get the fork to use more travel. It only reveals more than those 145mm when I let all the air out literally (the stanchions I can see when the fork is fully extended are 168mm long).
More air helps a little with the brake dive, especially in combination with low speed compression damping. But if I put in that much air, I don't have any sag and I don't even use half the travel.
 

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Radical_53 said:
So, is there any (maybe known?) defect that makes the fork ramp up for the last part of the travel like this? Is there anything I might do for the brake dive?
AFAIK it is not a defect, it's the bottom out control kicking in.... IIRC it can be adjusted inside the FIT cartridge
 

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crisillo said:
AFAIK it is not a defect, it's the bottom out control kicking in.... IIRC it can be adjusted inside the FIT cartridge
Cris is right... The new bottom out is Fox's response to folks complaining that the older 36's were too linear and would blow through it's travel...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok, that sounds promising. So let's assume this bottom out control (is that the one where you need a fancy expensive tool to set it up) is the only thing that keeps me from using the full travel. Could I assume that this is what I feel as a resistance when there's no air inside the fork and I compress it?
What could I do about the brake dive then? Is there anything a suspension tuning center could do to make the fork more linear in total, so that it doesn't blow through the mid stroke travel like mad?
 

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thats right living legend
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Radical_53 said:
Ok, that sounds promising. So let's assume this bottom out control (is that the one where you need a fancy expensive tool to set it up) is the only thing that keeps me from using the full travel. Could I assume that this is what I feel as a resistance when there's no air inside the fork and I compress it?
What could I do about the brake dive then? Is there anything a suspension tuning center could do to make the fork more linear in total, so that it doesn't blow through the mid stroke travel like mad?
With part of the problem being solved by getting full travel, what do you think that would free you up to do about the dive, as far as tuning?
 

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Radical_53 said:
Ok, that sounds promising. So let's assume this bottom out control (is that the one where you need a fancy expensive tool to set it up) is the only thing that keeps me from using the full travel. Could I assume that this is what I feel as a resistance when there's no air inside the fork and I compress it?
What could I do about the brake dive then? Is there anything a suspension tuning center could do to make the fork more linear in total, so that it doesn't blow through the mid stroke travel like mad?
I don't think the BO adjuster requires a fancy tool. As far as weak midstroke's go I have not ridden an air for that didn't exhibit those traits, especially longer travel forks. The exception to air forks is the Pike Dual Air, the adjustable negative chamber really helps prevent midstroke wallow and dive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@blackagness: Yes, more air. But not a "ton" of air. As I said before, when the fork is set for a "nice" brake dive, I only use about half the travel. I can tweak it a little further with the lsc, maybe even hsc for a part, but I can't turn them in completely as then they'd ruin everything else.
Also, when I set it to be "stiffer" with more air, the sag doesn't fit anymore, not at all.

@keen: I'm not sure, I just thought I read that somewhere. From what I've seen this fork do so far I just can't understand why so many people love it. The Van was nice, but the Talas is pretty strange so far.
 

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How much do you weigh, what pressure are you running and how are your HS & LS set?

I'm on a 2008, but I've been very happy with using the LS to tune out brake dive which I noticed when coming into switchbacks for instance.

As you have the '07 fork, I think it is the more linear model- altering the FIT dealie shouldn't be required.

Have you tried running less pressure and increasing the LS to keep the fork up higher in the travel? This would give you better small bump compliance and possibly more travel (if not, reduce the HS)

just my .02c
 

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Radical_53 said:
Could I assume that this is what I feel as a resistance when there's no air inside the fork and I compress it?
That's exactly it.... on my 36 with all the air out, it is pretty clear when the BO engages

Radical_53 said:
What could I do about the brake dive then? Is there anything a suspension tuning center could do to make the fork more linear in total, so that it doesn't blow through the mid stroke travel like mad?
just play a bit more with air and the LSC (I don't have that choice since my 36 talas is an R model)
 

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I have experienced the same thing. I never really get more than 135mm of travel no matter how low the air pressure is. However I can compress it all the way by pressing down on the front end with no air at all. A tech told me that the IFP needs to have the air pressure lowered but requires a special tool. I haven't pursued this route yet because I don't want to be without a fork right now,

Another weird thing is that my static sag increases with each lower travel setting. At full extension I find it hard to get much sag at all.
 

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FM said:
.....I'm on a 2008, but I've been very happy with using the LS to tune out brake dive which I noticed when coming into switchbacks for instance.....
Hey FM,

didn't you have an '06 66SL at one time? :skep:

If so, how would you compare the two? I have the 66SL, and am close to pulling the trigger on on an '08 36.

If you did NOT have an '06 66SL, well, ah, nevermind...:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@fm: I'm 210 pounds right now, roughly. Fox normally recommends 75 psi for my weight (they do that in every manual I've seen, 06-09 so far for the Talas and Float). I'm running 40-45psi now, depending on how "strong" hs and als are set. Seems low, but with a pressure of ~55psi for example I get only 1" of sag with ~4.8" maximum travel (even without any compression damping).
So far I've tried numerous settings up to full low speed compression with only 4-5 clicks high speed, right now I'm trying the "standard" setting of the 08 model, 8 clicks high and low speed, with a pressure of 40psi.
I'm still playing around with this setup so far. With a previous setup, 40psi with 2 clicks high speed, 8 clicks low speed, I ran ~1.6" sag, just about what I wanted, but the fork would compress nearly 5.2" when I hit the brakes.

@crisillo: Well, the problem is that I already tried that. With a pressure low enough to give me ~145-150mm of max travel (I never got out anything more), I can't get enough low speed compression to fight the huge brake dive. If I cripple the fork with much more pressure I get rid of the brake dive, but then it's just a 125mm fork actually.

@coolatt: So you haven't done anything about it and keep running the fork until it requires a service?
 

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Hi Radical,
I had the same problem with my 2008 36 Talas RC2.

I converted it to a FLOAT, can be easily done. The Float has WAY better small bump sensitivity and it also uses it´s travel a bit better.

Strange, because the Float is said to be more progressive, but I coulndn´t agree to that.

My Talas always left 18mm-20mm of travel unused, no matter how hard I dropped to flat etc.

The same converted to a Float (DAMPER side untouched - i.e. same internal bottom out rate) the Float leaves only 8mm unused. That´s with my 150lbs and a setting that doesn´t give excessive dive or whatever.
I actually even dialed in a bit of low speed compression because the Float was TOO active for my liking.


(Radical, if you need the conversion parts, shoot me a PM - the conversion is easy and you´ll save around 150-200g)

Greetings Znarf
 

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spending way to much on a fork that does not work, spending more money on getting it "tuned" by professionals, just to in the end SPEND MONEY to modify it down to a cheaper variant of the same fork that would actually have worked in the first place.

IMHO not exactly an appealing concept.
 

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Hm, that´s one possible view.
Another would be this:
Either sell the fork, buy another one (probably a Lyrik or something) and maybe have the same story, or worse again.

Instead you could invest the bit of cash, which is CHEAP compared to buying a new fork and then have a really nice fork.


In my experience (and I had a lot of ETA,ECC, U-TURN,TALAS and even a 2-step fork) the on the fly travel adjust systems don´t provide a really good feel in the suspension action department or are unreliable. That is apart from the U-turn, it feels good, but it takes a lot of turns to adjust, so I would only use it on really LONG climbs.

So in the end, I´d get a really nice fork such as a VAN or a FLOAT and just have no travel adjust. In the end, our rigid bikes from ten years ago didn´t have that too. They climbed really good ;)


Greetings Znarf
 

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having myself ridden everything from eta to to 2-step i can only agree.
sometimes travel adjustment systems do go against performance.

at least 2-step, rta and u-turn air do compromise performance. in the fox case i dont know, because i only rode the van, which wasnt exactly to my taste.

other travel adjustment systems do not compromise performance but take hell of a time to adjust (for example - u-turn).

i just recently went back to coil spring without travel adjust. works for most of what i ride.

but about your calculation znarf.
selling the fork and buying, for example, a z1 which almost certainly goes to outperform the 36, will cost him less than what he gets when selling the fork.
Maybe i am being a little unfair towards the 36 but i just never got warm with it.
if i was hm i would give it away for a z1 every day.

why do i recommend marzocchi? easy, because i never went wrong with a marzocchi coil spring fork.
easy to adjust, very responsive, stiff, not to heavy and freakin reliable.
 

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Have you considered rider position when siting on the seat vs attack position? I get confused when folks start talking about fork sag because of this issue. If you have a lot of rear weight bais in the seated petaling position due to seat/bars setup, and set fork sag up in that position, I can see someone using up a lot of travel with brake dive/down hilling (anything that transfers weight forward). I'm over 200# and feel the problem of fork setup for petaling vs attack position (and controling brake dive/down hilll performance) is much worse for bigger riders than lighter ones because of the extra weight transfer. I tend to forget about seting sag at my petaling position and only consider attack position. For me, this makes small bumps slightly harsh for on the seat petaling but helps a lot with brake dive/down hill control. I'm on a coil UT Lyrik which I like a lot now but I think the issues above apply to all forks. Just another angle to consider.
 
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