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Phatt Tire Luva'
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I am hoping that some of you super-wise suspension people can share some thoughts here - to help me setup my suspension properly.

Bike = 2018 Hightower
Fork = 150mm Lyrik Ultimate
Shock = 135 DPS EVOL

I am trying to get things dialed in using a Shockwiz, and it would appear that I have somethings dialed and it's impossible to dial in the others. On both of my bikes - I get SAG and Tokens good, and then the system tells me I need to make compression settings softer. The problem is that they are at their max. soft setting. I am wondering how air pressure and tokens effect the compression settings, as I am a larger rider.

What I'm finding is that if I use more tokens - I leave too much travel left after a ride. But, if I don't use tokens - I will max. out the air pressure settings and get a pogo effect (more so in the rear), particularly when climbing... which feels like it's robbing energy on the climb.

Some base line starting thoughts would be most helpful here.

Thanks,

-A-
 

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Making compression softer is hard to do with a bike whose kinematics are trying to to work in parallel to your rear shock. Your bike is position-sensitive with travel as the anti-squat properties of the bike at the recommended sag point will make the bike feel harsh if pedaling over chattery stuff (not always, but in general). The stock compression tunes on a lot of those DW, VPP, Maestro designs are usually on the light side.

You are talking about how air pressure and volume changes at the end of the stroke (tokens) affect the damper either tune or settings. One is the spring, building and releasing kinetic energy while the damper is attempting to slow the compression and rebound by metering oil (your adjustments). You also have the bike yanking on the rear shock as the wheel cycles through its travel.

I would use the ShockWiz as a point of data and then make *your* changes based on the shortcomings you are trying to correct. Like you said, a lot of tokens leaves travel on the trail and can feel harsh. Too few and you blow through the travel.

I would work on small bump compliance first. If you like how that feels, keep it at the same pressure and ONLY change volume spacers for the bigger hits. To lessen the pogo in the rear, add one or two clicks of rebound (slow it down, clockwise) and see how that feels.

Good luck.

mk
 

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I would ignore Damping recommendations from the shockwiz - it's sample rate simply isn't high enough to work it out accurately. It might do air spring and rebound OK but definitely not compression. After that just tune by if it feels good or bad
 

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Agree with Johnny. I’m a user of the shockwiz and it was useful when I didn’t have a good understanding of suspension. However the more I study it and understand the dark wizardry the less the shockwiz comes out. When I moved to coil both front and rear on my enduro bike I was on my own as far as setting the bike up.

If you have no idea where to start or are confused about what the adjusters do, by all means the shockwiz will get you a good way to suspsension heaven. But getting that dialled feeling either comes with a lot of back to back testing or understanding the theory.

Another factor, suspsension is about comfort. I’m not talking your favourite couch comfort, but the setting you feel most confident on. When you feel that “comfy” feeling you start hitting sections faster, railing berms harder and just progress as the confidence is in the bike that it will react how you want it to every time.

For me, this is a slower rebounding setup with a lot of high speed compression wound on. Probably not perfect according to the text books but that’s the setting that gives me that warm fuzzy comfy feel.
 

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Thanks Qanuk. Is that your full ride weight? Do you ride with a water pack w another 5liters etc. each liter is 2.2lbs. Phone tools etc all add up.

Im 265 myself and set my yari debonair at about 135 psi. Ill assume your setting for 160max i believe. This creates a very strong air spring. To control the rebound of that spring you will need to run it a bit more closed than a lighter rider. But not a-lot as the fork rebounding freely keeps the tire on the ground, provides traction and allows the fork to return back up in its travel. You will want to crank in a-lot of lsc compression so that the fork doesnt dive too deep when pedaling. Depending on how fast and what amount of big drops or jumps you ride more high speed compression. If you do all this and bottom the fork, then start adding one token at a time. See where you get.

You have a great fork. But great for a magazine rider who weighs 180 or even 165lbs.

Forget the shockwiz!

My auron fork runs a lower pressure for my weight than the yari. So its an alternative. Also if you can fit a cane creek in there the db air cs runs about 20psi less than rider weight and goes to 300 psi.

Finally the new ultimate fork runs a large debonair extra negative volume chamber. These forks will set up where the weight of the bike actually causes the fork to ride down about 5mm. Mine does. The older air spring system didnt as it provided less help. End result is its a better air spring for heavy riders. The swap is probably less than 50 bucks so Id try that if your still having problems
 

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Phatt Tire Luva'
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for Reply Fuse6F!

Tweaked a few things yesterday on a Great ride... Current state of setup:

Baseline Air Pressure is 115lbs.
Rebound fully closed
HSC & LSC Full Slow
NO Tokens

Still not getting full travel of fork - and that's with a few 1-1.5 foot drops, and a bunch of Chunder - in my last ride... Throw in a few jumps for good measure too. But this is as Good as the fork has felt yet. The interesting thing - is that the Shockwiz is still showing Baseline Air pressure & Tokens as "Good". Despite the fact that I've taken over 20lbs of air out for Baseline!

For some reason I've always run considerably less air in my forks than one would think.
 

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Try half rebound. This will make it ride higher up. Not an issue for a nice slow trail ride but when you open her up it makes a huge diff.

What sag do you have now when standing.
After a ride to try rebound open then...
Add another 20 psi and open up high speed to 3/4 closed

You may find the fork tracks better and sits up higher again. Will affect stability of bike by being a bit slacker front overall during the ride.
 

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For the sake of more info for the discussion, I'll chime in. My weight with full pack is around 205lbs. Fork is a 140mm Yari fitted with the new Charger 2.1 RC2 and Debonair spring upgrade, so a setup fairly comparable to the Lyrik you're running.

I'm still tweaking, but I've ended up with this as a ballpark:

2 tokens

95psi for 25% sag

Rebound around 13 clicks from full open. Just enough to keep the front tire on the ground doing the hop test

HSC 1 or 2 clicks from open, still working on that one

LSC 5 clicks from full open, give or take a click

So far at these settings, I have a front end that feels superglued to the ground and eats chunky rocks with gusto. Much more LSC than that, and I get a fork that will support my weight until cornering forces build up, then suddenly sink into its travel. Very spooky when it happens, so I like it dialed in til it just barely stops bouncing during seated hard climbing.

I also haven't seen it hit full travel, but my gnarliest trails should be opening up in a week or so and my current travel used is very close to what I expect for my recent rides. Hope this info helps the discussion.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

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Phatt Tire Luva'
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
clintj,

It sounds like I am very much along the same lines as yourself - with weight taken into consideration, and No tokens.

What did you find the tokens did for the ride?
 

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clintj,

It sounds like I am very much along the same lines as yourself - with weight taken into consideration, and No tokens.

What did you find the tokens did for the ride?
I've got tokens in for bottom out resistance. My fork came with three installed, and even casing a jump hard I couldn't use full travel and only used about 75% travel on really rough trails. A side effect was the ride was rougher since there was a fair bit of travel unused. I pulled one out and then could hit ~90% travel when the trail demanded it, which also made the ride more compliant.

Short version: if you're not using most/all of your travel on big hits, pull one. If you're routinely hitting bottom, add one. It depends on your riding style and terrain. I do notice the Debonair spring supports the front end better in small to medium chop, too.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

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I'm currently tinkering with settings on a new 2020 Lyrik Ultimate. 1x token was horrible, 2x tokens made it feel like a different bike and I'm now on 3x tokens but haven't had a decent ride on that yet. I'm around 94kg loaded. With 2x tokens I was at 74psi, around 10x clicks from open on LSC, no HSC, and 3x clicks from full closed on rebound.
Dynamic sag was around 13%.

I obviously wanted more sag and Shockwiz was asking for less LSC and a token.

So now at 65psi, 10x clicks LSC, 1x HSC from open and 10x clicks rebound from full open. I did a short run and it asked for less HSC and more LSC (had 2x & 8x respectively). Dynamic sag was 28%. Now I've added a couple of clicks of LSC I'm expecting a lower Dynamic sag but still might need another few psi. Feels very nice so far.
 

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Dab-O-Matic
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I'm a simpleton...what is the COMPRESSION RATIO for a Lyric Ultimate 2020? Trying to set up Shockwiz.
 

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Just general commentary guys.

All suspension adjustments are counted from fully closed (CLOCKWISE), ALWAYS. This means the adjustment screw/ knob is turned in clockwise, and then turning it counterclockwise every click makes the suspension move faster and gives less of what ever knob you are turning out. One click is 1, 2 click is 2, and so on.

To add rebound is to add the effect of slowing down rebound for without rebound, your suspension is just a pogo stick. Think of a suspension adjustment screw like an orifice that oil is forced through. The more the screw is loosened the less restriction on oil flow you will have and the faster the suspension will move.

As far as the OP's suspension settings go, if all he is doing is 1.5' drops he either needs 0 or 1 tokens.

Start with 1 token and set sag. Sag is a static number that is NOT an adjustment. It is a single pressure/ travel number that has 1 correct setting so that the bike geo and suspension is starting in the correct position based on the rider's weight and center of gravity. Compression and rebound have no effect on static sag.

At this rider's weight have all suspension control knobs at about 25%-33% backed off from fully closed (i.e. if the LSC has 12 clocks, run it 3-4 clicks from clockwise). That's going to be pretty close.

Using 100% of the suspension is NOT the primary goal. The suspension moving at a rate that improves bike control is. If the rider is an easy trail rider with the suspension working correctly he/ she is unlikely to utilize all travel and if that goal alone was chased, the result would be overly fast/ loose suspension that moves unnecessarily and would give the rider less control.

Good luck.
 
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