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WIRVNTANASHRSH?
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Homers,

I'm trying to decide between a TNT flux and a titus racerx. I've got a 7 day demo of the flux from competetive cyclist and am going to demo the racerx tomorrow. I'm taking a friend so I should be able to switch back and forth and ride the same sections of trail on each.

anyway.. I had the first ride today on the flux, and it is no doubt an awesome ride. My friend with a ventana said (and I quote) "I didn't know any bike suspension could work like that!". My only complaint was that I had a hard time keeping the front end planted on steep climbs. Does anyone else have this problem? I actually didn't make it up a climb that I always make it up because the front end came up and I couldn't hold the line. There is nothing unsuall about the setup, a 110x5 deg stem and easton low risers, straight thomson seatpost. I'm 5'9.5" and feel the bike fits me well. So has anyone else experience this, any rememdy other than just getting used to it and adjusting technique somehow?

climr
 

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climr said:
My only complaint was that I had a hard time keeping the front end planted on steep climbs. Does anyone else have this problem? I actually didn't make it up a climb that I always make it up because the front end came up and I couldn't hold the line. There is nothing unsuall about the setup, a 110x5 deg stem and easton low risers, straight thomson seatpost. I'm 5'9.5" and feel the bike fits me well. So has anyone else experience this, any rememdy other than just getting used to it and adjusting technique somehow?

climr
What fork are you using?

I don't have much experience on a Flux as I'm still on a Burner but I have a Bomber with ETA and it really helps me climb in the locked down position.

-Derek
 

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WIRVNTANASHRSH?
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
derek said:
What fork are you using?

I don't have much experience on a Flux as I'm still on a Burner but I have a Bomber with ETA and it really helps me climb in the locked down position.

-Derek
Fox F100RL.
 

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Leash Law Enforcer
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What is your current or previous ride that you are replacing with the Flux/RacerX? I think geometry may have more to do with it than anything. I too had the front end lifting problem when I first got my Turner. The geometry on my previous bike had me very far forward. Turner's tend to let you sit more upright on bike. This was a huge adjustment for me in the beginning. I have since learned to climb on the Turner just as well, if not better, than my previous bike and I keep the front end down. Geometry is everything, IMO. The fork may also have something to do with this. If you have the Flux for a week see if you can't adjust your riding style to make the front stay down. That may sound odd. Some may say that you shouldn't have to adjust your riding style. However, I have never been able to hop on two separate/different bikes and ride them the same way.
 

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WIRVNTANASHRSH?
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Pinch said:
What is your current or previous ride that you are replacing with the Flux/RacerX? I think geometry may have more to do with it than anything. I too had the front end lifting problem when I first got my Turner. The geometry on my previous bike had me very far forward. Turner's tend to let you sit more upright on bike. This was a huge adjustment for me in the beginning. I have since learned to climb on the Turner just as well, if not better, than my previous bike and I keep the front end down. Geometry is everything, IMO. The fork may also have something to do with this. If you have the Flux for a week see if you can't adjust your riding style to make the front stay down. That may sound odd. Some may say that you shouldn't have to adjust your riding style. However, I have never been able to hop on two separate/different bikes and ride them the same way.
I've been on a Gary fisher sugar, which has a long top tube.. plus I've been running a 130mm stem, so I'm used to being quite stretched out. The flux's cockpit is only an inch shorter than that though. The only real obvious difference is the head tube angle difference of 1.5 degrees (flux is more slack). Could this have something to do with it? I'll ride it as much as I can over the next week and see if I adjust.

BTW, I didn't measure sag but the shock/fork felt perfect. I'm 170lbs with gear and am running 148psi in the rear and about 63psi in the front.
 

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Pixie Dust Addict
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The only other thing I can think of is to use a little body english in the steeps. Namely, try riding on the tip of the saddle in the really steep sections. That will get your weight forward to keep the front end down and still allow you to get power to the back end without spinning out.
 

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I think an inch is a big difference.

climr said:
I've been on a Gary fisher sugar, which has a long top tube.. plus I've been running a 130mm stem, so I'm used to being quite stretched out. The flux's cockpit is only an inch shorter than that though. The only real obvious difference is the head tube angle difference of 1.5 degrees (flux is more slack). Could this have something to do with it? I'll ride it as much as I can over the next week and see if I adjust.

BTW, I didn't measure sag but the shock/fork felt perfect. I'm 170lbs with gear and am running 148psi in the rear and about 63psi in the front.
If I shortened my cockpit an inch I'd definitely be able to feel it on the climbs.

Are you riding a medium or small frame? (medium would be my guess for the right size)

Give it a few more rides, you'll probably adapt. If not you might want to bump up a size.

Dave
 

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Lay off the Levers
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Doublecheck your REAR shock settings. Make sure you don't have it too soft. (Maybe add some more as trial)
This problem came up for a couple of other people who posted here, as well as myself on my Spot when I put the RP3 on. I eventually discovered that I had the rear shock way undersprung and even though it felt very nice on the trail the rear would squat excessively on the climbs and the bike would wheelie out even when I drew my Pike down to it's minimum travel settings.

It was very deceptive b/c I had no idea the rear was squatting so much. When I brought the shock pressure up to a sensible level the problem went entirely away.

It worked for a couple of other people here too, so it's worth a look.
 

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climr said:
I've been on a Gary fisher sugar, which has a long top tube.. plus I've been running a 130mm stem, so I'm used to being quite stretched out. The flux's cockpit is only an inch shorter than that though. The only real obvious difference is the head tube angle difference of 1.5 degrees (flux is more slack). Could this have something to do with it? I'll ride it as much as I can over the next week and see if I adjust.

BTW, I didn't measure sag but the shock/fork felt perfect. I'm 170lbs with gear and am running 148psi in the rear and about 63psi in the front.
Hey Climr,

I'm just shy of 6' and just switched from a XL Sugar to a Lg 5-spot. (I like being stretched out.) Head tube angle is 2.5 degrees slacker, Top tube is about 1.4" shorter. With a shorter stem the cockpit is 1.75 - 2.0" shorter. In addition, the handlebars are taller, too. Holy moly, talk about a big change! I've got less than 10 rides on the Spot. On the first ride I thought I was going to tumble backwards on every climb. I get better at climbing with each ride. The front end still wanders, but I'm getting it figured out.

The Sugar was a good climber, especially for out-of-the-saddle grunts. The Turner is a significantly better climber, but I'm learning to change my style and stay seated more.

I had to save money somewhere, so I had to put a RockShox Recon U-Turn on the bike. Yeah, it's a bit heavy, but I love being able to shorten the fork for longer/steeper climbs. I'm finding that I dial it down less each ride, so I guess I'm adapting to the shorter bike.

I'm guessing that you'll experience something similar with the Flux.

HH
 

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WIRVNTANASHRSH?
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Bikezilla said:
Doublecheck your REAR shock settings. Make sure you don't have it too soft. (Maybe add some more as trial)
This problem came up for a couple of other people who posted here, as well as myself on my Spot when I put the RP3 on. I eventually discovered that I had the rear shock way undersprung and even though it felt very nice on the trail the rear would squat excessively on the climbs and the bike would wheelie out even when I drew my Pike down to it's minimum travel settings.

It was very deceptive b/c I had no idea the rear was squatting so much. When I brought the shock pressure up to a sensible level the problem went entirely away.

It worked for a couple of other people here too, so it's worth a look.
I'll give this a shot. I need to measure the sag and make sure I have that set up correctly. Anyone know how much sag I should be getting on the flux w/rp3? Do I set it up with the propedal in the "-" setting?

If I end up going with the flux I'll probably go with a 115 or 120 stem. What does a longer stem do to the steering response? I was expecting the flux to be slow steering b/c of the head tube angle, but to the contrary I find it kinda twitchy as slow speeds (it was nice on fast descents). Again, this may just be something I need to get used to.
 

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WIRVNTANASHRSH?
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Double H said:
Hey Climr,

I'm just shy of 6' and just switched from a XL Sugar to a Lg 5-spot. (I like being stretched out.) Head tube angle is 2.5 degrees slacker, Top tube is about 1.4" shorter. With a shorter stem the cockpit is 1.75 - 2.0" shorter. In addition, the handlebars are taller, too. Holy moly, talk about a big change! I've got less than 10 rides on the Spot. On the first ride I thought I was going to tumble backwards on every climb. I get better at climbing with each ride. The front end still wanders, but I'm getting it figured out.

The Sugar was a good climber, especially for out-of-the-saddle grunts. The Turner is a significantly better climber, but I'm learning to change my style and stay seated more.

I had to save money somewhere, so I had to put a RockShox Recon U-Turn on the bike. Yeah, it's a bit heavy, but I love being able to shorten the fork for longer/steeper climbs. I'm finding that I dial it down less each ride, so I guess I'm adapting to the shorter bike.

I'm guessing that you'll experience something similar with the Flux.

HH
ya, I think the sugar "genesis" geometry is so different everything else feels weird at first. I agree the turner is a better climber with regards to traction and efficiency. Once I get the front planted I feel like it'll climb anything.
 

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Lay off the Levers
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Yeah I was carless about the sag that time but honestly I think the RP3 is very deceptive in terms of Sag... I could drop a buttload of PSI and not see a big change in sag, but as I said the ride changed tremendously. Do the settings in (-) mode.

A longer stem moves your personal COG forward and out over the front wheel. This will help keep it down and better planted on turns but at the possible cost of a little nervousness and slight wash out if you have too much weight forward. You'll feel more like you're going over the bars on steep decents. All this is relative to the balance you had before going longer. It may be far more helpful than not. It really depends on what you are starting with.


G'luck!
 

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Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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another though i hope i didnt miss in another post: goin from a genesis bike w/ a 130mm stem to a turner w/ a 110 is gonna be a huge change. another thing is bar to axle height. most higher end fishers ran a pretty low measurment in this respect and ill bet ya find more difference here. add those up with zillas shock psi idea and you have a whole new ball game. guess thats why they give ya the bike for a week though.

i run 10mm more than reccomended due to the steepness of the climbs in my region. taint on the saddle nose and chest on the stem goes a long way towards turnin a upright and slackened bike into a climbin machine. give it a go tomorrow and report back. ill be out of town but these boys will take good care of ya. thats all i got for ya anyway.

so enjoy the flux. i sure dig mine!
 

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Saddle

I would check the fore/aft saddle positon as well. Too far back and I find it very difficult if not impossible to climb the steeps while with my saddle set up properly the 5 Spot climbs great.
 

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KAIZEN!
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technique!

Lots of good advice on this thread for you. Coming off a Heckler to the Flux, I too had issues with wheel lift on the climbs. I checked my suspension setup front (Rock Shok team race) and rear (fox RP3) and went into the LBS to make sure it was fitted properly (stem, steerer tube length, seat, bars, etc) as I had ordered the bikie off the web. Cactuscorn's comments about leaning forward and "using your taint" are spot on. For me, the big thing was adapting my riding technique... now it climbs like crazy! Keep us posted.
 

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WIRVNTANASHRSH?
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the advice guys. I just returned from a 2 hour demo ride of the racerx-100. I now have absolutely no doubt which bike I'm going to get, the turner! The racerx climbs like no other FS bike I've ever been on, but plush it ain't! We rode several sections of the trails back to back on the two different bikes and spent alot of time making sure the forks/shocks were setup equally well on each. The racerx would soak up the larger stuff ok (but still felt more like a 2.5 or 3 inch travel bike, not 4), but the real difference was on small rocks and small roots. On the turner you often don't even feel them, whereas the racerx would shake you around. If you're wondering, they had the same front shock with the same air pressure.

So since I'm not using the bike for purely racing and I'd rather trade the uphill efficiency for downhill fun, it seems like a no brainer. Plus I really appreciate how DT seems to stand behind his bikes and is willing to work with the customer directly.

I'll get a few more rides in on the turner so I'll work on my technique and mess with the stem/seat/sag. Thanks again for the help.

climr
 

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Lay off the Levers
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Climr, you'll also find a more active (plush) setup tracks better on tricky technical climbs. You won't have to finesss your way over every fist sized piece of chunck and can save your focus for the real steps. A firmer setup may climb longer smoother climbs but you'll use less effort climbing the choppy stuff on a more compliant setup.

Plus you always have the (+) (0) (-) settings on the RP3 (or RP23) which will let you quickly bias the shock for the task at hand.

OTOH if you do long standing climbs you may want to firm things up. See if you can get the Flux with the RP23 so you can adjust the effectiveness of the (+) (0) (-) settings.

Re: Technique: I agree with CC that on super steep stuff, I find a big advantage of getting up on the nose of the seat. I pretty much have it set so by the time I work my way up to the point of the saddle, the bike is halfway towards vertical so my legs are almost pushing straight down in a stair climbing fashon. (if this makes sense) The point is I'm still getting support from the saddle so I have better leverage on the cranks AND because my weight is resting on the saddle I have more force on the rear wheel for better traction than if I was standing, which would unweight the rear and cause it to break traction much sooner.

Technical trail riding is not like XC or road riding, you pretty much have to move around to finish the job. Some people think they should not have to change their position on the saddle during a ride. I think if you can ride in one spot the whole day, the trails must not have much diversity.

CC is that red squiggly what you guys climbed?? Whah nelly!




Cheers!
 

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Team Blindspot
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Bikezilla said:
have much diversity.

CC is that red squiggly what you guys climbed?? Whah nelly!
That's where we started. The pic is not yet taken from the top. More climibing to go.
 
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