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· What's "social pace?"
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
xpost from Bike/Frame....

Just thought I'd throw myself to the Homers with this question. It's about my Turner Flux, but it's relative to my other bike, which is a 21 lb xc-racing-only Cannondale hardtail.

I just built up the '08 Flux (TNT) as my first squishy-bike. F100RL in the front, PUSHed RP3 in the back, X0 1x9 drivetrain, nice stans wheels. It's pretty much identical, component wise, to my hardtail. It's not a heavy build at all, somewhere around 24lb even. It rides pretty plush and it's real fun on downhills and whatnot, but theres some things about it that really cook my goose...

I expected it to be a little bit more work to steer due to the head angle being 1º slacker than my other frame, but it feels like a LOT more work steering it through rock gardens or whenever the going gets slow. It also feels a whole lot slower. When I mash a big gear in on my hardtail, it just takes off. On the Flux, not so much, even with PP engaged on the shock. It just always feels like I'm going slow unless I'm going like 20+ mph downhill.

Does anyone else have similar experience with their first FS build? I'm just trying to get this setup dialed so I can race it soon.
 

· Lay off the Levers
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A hardtail will always feel more pedal responsive. Do a timed lap with each and I bet you find the FS has the better time, or at least the same time and you feel less fatigued.

The only thing the hardtail will get you is that instant jump feeling. IMO that will not surpass the speed you'll carry over anything that's not paved smooth, and the effort it'll save.

As for the steering feel, there's more to a bike's geometry than just the headtube. It may feel slower, steering, give it time. If it still is a problem try a shorter stem or shorter bars, or maybe lower the fork.
 

· Lay off the Levers
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Exactly. Because you won't have to react to every feature you tires hit. Your mind will be farther down the trail and will be disregard more so the time from one trail event to another increases. So you'll feel like you're going slower b/c you'll have less to keep you distracted.

Also a quicker steering bike requires more attention as every body nuance translates into movement and every glancing rock can require line correction.

Again you'll think you're going faster b/c things that require you to react will happen more frequently, just like you were going faster on a bike that could handle more.
 

· Registered
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xjbebop said:
something else: different tires can make a huge change in how the Flux 'feels'....
Any bike come to that - night and day on a 5 Spot when I took of the 2.35 UST high rollers and replaced them with 2.2 Racing Ralphs for a 24hr race. Funnily enough the RR's are just as wide as the 2.35 HR's but that is another story!
 

· Just Wanna Ride!
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Also - could be the suspension set up - you may be rear biased with the setup you're running. Check the sag in the rear. Try running the rear with the minimum recommended sag and a little more compression damping. Riding with the rear a little high will steepen the sagged hta a bit, firm up the rear suspension and help balance your weight forward.

Spend some time on the bike and play with the rear susp and fork settings. A little more rebound dampening on the fork will also help balance things out and keep your weight off the rear of the bike.
 

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Yep, you will have to learn how to ride FS coming from a HT. I am a lot faster on my 29er SIR than on the flux. Or at least it feels that way...

I find that hammering out of the saddle on the flux overcomes any platform on the rear shock and it sinks. So sit and spin like a mofo. I feel a huge difference from the 5 spot to the flux in faster acceleration climbing etc. The 5 HL spot is slow but fun to ride and doing the rough stuff.

Certainly, the flux is not going to be the fastest race bike out there but depending on the trail it may have its advantages. See what would happen on a flux with Nitrous rockers. Sometimes I wish DT made 3" rockers for the flux.

Also tires, tires, tires. Try a Schwalbe RR front and small block 8 in the rear and feel the power... Also the rear hub will make a difference CK, Hadley, I9 vs anything else.
 

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Frankenturneritis

dinoadventures said:
Nitrous rockers, eh? please tell me more... besides reducing the travel, what else would this do for me?
i do not know, I guess if you can make a 5 pack the could you make a Fluxtrous?

DT - Can you use Nitrous rockers on a Flux??? Can you make some 3-3.5" rockers for the TNT flux please??
 

· Moosehead
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+1 to the shorter stem, shorter bars, race tune, and stopwatch. full suss will definitely "feel" slower coming from a HT where feel is more sensitive to all inputs, espec, if you are a ss kinda guy used to standing and mashing. the opposite is also true as the flux feels extremely fast and steering sensitive when coming off of the spot or a dh rig.

you also might try additional air in both front fork and rear shock experimenting in 2-5 lb increments, along with rebound 1-3 clicks off fastest. the rp23 with its 3 propedal settings may also be worthwhile to try. little tweaks can mean a lot, especially if you like a firm setup.
 

· What's "social pace?"
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
moosehead said:
+1 to the shorter stem, shorter bars, race tune, and stopwatch. full suss will definitely "feel" slower coming from a HT where feel is more sensitive to all inputs, espec, if you are a ss kinda guy used to standing and mashing. the opposite is also true as the flux feels extremely fast and steering sensitive when coming off of the spot or a dh rig.

you also might try additional air in both front and rear shocks and experiment in 2-5 lb increments, along with rebound 1-3 clicks off fastest. the rp3 with its 3 propedal settings may also be worthwhile to try. little tweaks can mean a lot, especially if you like a firm setup.
I'm definitely of the stand-and-mash persuasion as I usually race singlespeed.

The flux has a ETT length a bit shorter than my hardtail so I think I may indeed need to play with stem and bar dimensions some. I think a wider bar, perhaps even one that isn't flat, may be in order for this build.

My build only has one shock, and it's the RP3 in the rear. Not sure how you got that I have a shock in the front as I am running a normal Fox fork and not a German-A Kilo or Fournales or something weird like that.
 

· Moosehead
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my bad, i meant front fork which if not dialed in for your likes can definitely add to the slower feeling. apologize if this is redundant but may help if this is your first suss rig. owner's manual worth a read if you haven't already. top cap of left fork leg opens up and allows you to add or decrease sprung air pressure, and the top right fork cap allows adjustment of compression settings. another post suggested setting added compression in the front fork to help cut down on front end bob when out of the seat.
 

· ... I guess you won't be
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A flux will never feel like a whippy hardtail - especially one that's pretty stiff like your Cdale. Stand and mash riding style will be a waste on your flux - you have to get used to a new riding style. And, most agree that a HT "feels" faster since the rear tire is rarely on the ground in the rough stuff or chunked up corners filled with braking bumps....when you're feeling like your on the edge of control, an HT feels very fast, but ride a FS bike thru the same corner and all that HT drama is eliminated - thus, the perception of "slowness" [aside from the finish line stand sprints].

Just think how long it took you to develop your HT riding style...give the Flux some time. You'll also want to experiment with the riding compartment, as a FS bike often benefits from the rider being positioned more "on top of" the pedals, than stretched out.

Put your hardtail away for a while and just ride the FS bike......you'll be amazed how weird your HT feels when you jump back on it.
 

· Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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dinoadventures said:
I'm definitely of the stand-and-mash persuasion as I usually race singlespeed.
like joker said, this isnt helpin. sit and spin! learn to manipulate the suspension with finness rather than muscle it like a hardtail. nose fwd, shoulers square, hips and legs are now yer focal point when it comes to balance and direction. its a whole new ballgame and the rules take some time to learn.

dinoadventures said:
The flux has a ETT length a bit shorter than my hardtail so I think I may indeed need to play with stem and bar dimensions some. I think a wider bar, perhaps even one that isn't flat, may be in order for this build.
indeed! lose the narrow flat bar and try a long stem. i was all about a 120 on my med flux.

dinoadventures said:
My build only has one shock, and it's the RP3 in the rear. Not sure how you got that I have a shock in the front as I am running a normal Fox fork and not a German-A Kilo or Fournales or something weird like that.
easy tiger. just be glad he didnt say "forks".
 

· Flyin Canine
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2,258 Posts
I'd third the need for a new style. TNT turners do not feel great to me when I try to stand and mash. I also have a SS hardtail and go back and forth from there to a 5spot and know what you are feeling. I also used to ride a Titus racer-x before i got my 07 5.5 spot and that bike would take off when you stood and hammered on it.

Spend some time getting used to the new riding style, check your lap times to confirm that you are indeed getting faster and that it's worth your trouble and if in a few months you are still not happy then I would look at maybe swapping it out for a Titus or get a new dw-link flux. No point riding around on a bike that does not work for you.
 

· Moosehead
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whoa, don't give up yet man. yea, maybe a few of the strongest ss hammerheads can't convert, but see the suggestions above and beyond all else take time to learn what other benefits the full suss will bring by riding her.

stopwatch and riding styles are in every thread post here. for instance, note that instead of standing and coasting over semi rough and rolling terrain on a HT, you can sit and spin a big ring while the full suss eats the trail vs. your legs. note that sitting and spinning on a grind climb can create as much speed with less output and fatigue. note that you can point her dowhill in maybe the straightest, shortest, and fastest line without picking about and brake tapping as much. these minor examples alone are a helluva lot faster on a lap and are just a few of many areas for speed gains.

all of us, including long time full suss riders spend time dialing in our suspensions, front and rear. if the suss isn't set up right, especially with too much sag, slow rebound, and no compression damping, the rig will feel slower as rider input is absorbed by the suss instead of driving the bike forward as efficiently. once dialed, she'll fly. for racing that very generally means a firmer setup. yea the new dwl perhaps avoids some of the tweaking, but it's fun, not that hard, and you'll learn a ton about your rig and riding.
 
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