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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A while back I posted my frustration with Flow rims. I had been running converted tubeless on Maxxis rim strips on a variety of rims (Mavic 521, Easton Havoc, Sun Rhyno Lite) all successfully for 7+ years. Most of those 7 years all with IRC trail bear 2.25 tires (cheap, long lasting, light, good but not great performance as a rear)

Flash fwd 7 years and I got a new frame that takes a Maxle 12X135 and I had to build a new wheel. I went with the Flow rims as everybody raves about them. Suddenly I started blowing off tires. The fit of tires on the Flow was ridiculously loose. I tried 2 newer, different brand tires and blew them right off the rim. New IRC traail bears seemed OK (though still way loose) but a used trail bear with a stretched bead also blew off.

The other day I got a tiny flat spot in the rim and started weeping air at that location. The tire was about due for replacement anyway so I put a new trail bear on. First ride out and it blew off the rim. Well fool me once, twice, 3 x and I finally learned my lesson and said to hell with this [email protected]#$% rim and disassembled to build up a different wheel.

In the process I finally had the simple idea of measuring the Flow rim and then even more simple of comparing it to other rims. Lo and behold...the Flow measures about 1/8" shorter on diameter than my Easton Havoc and about 1/4" shorter than a Sun Rhyno Lite. This may seem trivial but that's actually a lot when you're relying on a good tight fit to keep the tire on!

Pictures below. Curious if my Flow rim is just out of spec and if anybody else has tried such a simple measurement comparison? I'm done with Flow's regardless but it would be good to know if I just had a non conforming rim?
 

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Moosehead
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I believe Stan's Flow intention is to have lower profile rims for better beadlock espec with UST type rubber. I understand they obviously are alsomeant to go Ghetto. I have had no issues eith Bontrager, Specialized, and other tubeless ready rubber on Flows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Interesting

I subscribe to the short sidewall theory but a smaller overall diameter doesn't hold water in my book. My experience has proven that out in the inability to hold a tire. 7 years and I never once blew a tire off with other rims and now at least a dozen blowoff in less than a year on the Flows.
 

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I dig trails!
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Keep in mind that NoTubes does not recommend IRC tires, and the Maxxis rim strips added diameter to the rim's bead bench (which would probably stretch your tires bead).

A couple of basic rules with Flows/converted tubeless:
- is if it fits loose, then it is not a good candidate for converting tubeless.
- used tires, "The tire was about due for replacement anyway" are not good candidates for converting tubeless
But both of the above statements are true for any tubeless system.

The shorter diameter you measured is most likely their BST sidewall, which is lower than standard rims. This is one of their selling points. Where did you measure?

NoTubes tech is not perfect and requires some finesse, but it also has it's advantages. One of which has been kicking the industry's ass into providing more tubeless rim options and tubeless convertible tires.

IME, I have used only tubeless beaded converted tires on Flows and have yet to even burp them. Which includes jumps & drops on a hardtail.

P
 

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transmitter~receiver
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It is true that your measurement comparison is simple, but it is also completely irrelevant. The dimension that matters is the bead seat diameter, not the overall height of the bead.
The "don't use IRC tires" recommendation has already been covered.
Stan's rims are not like other rims, specifically with regard to tubeless. You seemed to understand that much but apparently didn't want any more information Informing yourself would have led you to approach tubeless on a Flow in pretty much the opposite way from everything you did.
They are designed to have a slighly larger bead seat than most rims, which makes for a tight fit once you get the bead seated. The wide channel in the middle is likely what made the tires seem loose, but that is for mounting only.
Stan's rims are not designed to be used with a rim strip of any kind by any manufacturer.
You likely overstretched your beads resulting in blow offs.
Your experience sucks, but you most likely could have avoided it completely had you followed instructions and/or done some reading.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
1) The tires were new so explain to me how the beads were stretched?
2) I wasn't using the Maxxis rim strips with the Flows.
3) Same thing happened with a new Maxxis and a new Panaracer tire
4) You can drink all the Stan's Kool Aid you want about the bead seat diameter but at some point it's simple math fitting 1 round donut over another. When the outer donut practically falls over the inner, the result is exactly what I experienced.

It's great that your experience has been positive but you don't need to cast aspersions over somebody that had negative experience. I was trying to see if my rim was atypical and undersized from other Flow rims...period. You can point to all the marketing BS Stan's can write but at the end of the day it doesn't add up to squat when my tire kept falling off so yeah, I had already made my mind up for my ride. Again, glad its working out for you.
 

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transmitter~receiver
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1) The tires were new so explain to me how the beads were stretched?
2) I wasn't using the Maxxis rim strips with the Flows.
I read Mr. P's response and got that idea in my head... sorry.
3) Same thing happened with a new Maxxis and a new Panaracer tire
Interesting... you might have a misfit.
4) You can drink all the Stan's Kool Aid you want about the bead seat diameter but at some point it's simple math fitting 1 round donut over another. When the outer donut practically falls over the inner, the result is exactly what I experienced.
You've got it all figured out and the thousands that have successfully run his rims are all Kool-Aide drinkers. :skep:
You are oversimplifying the tire fitting process and your comparison of outter diameter is not the simple revelation you paint it to be... and that seems to be more the point of your thread than asking if you have a misfit. It is, after all, the title.
It's great that your experience has been positive but you don't need to cast aspersions over somebody that had negative experience.
Aspersions? Where?
cry more... geez.
I was trying to see if my rim was atypical and undersized from other Flow rims...period.
Well, it seems like it is... and that's a very rare occurrence. I don't supposed you ever contacted Stan's, did you? What did they say about it?
Your experience sucked, I'm sure, and I empathized.
You can point to all the marketing BS Stan's can write but at the end of the day it doesn't add up to squat when my tire kept falling off so yeah, I had already made my mind up for my ride. Again, glad its working out for you.
wow
fly off the handle much? I didn't say anything about "marketing BS."
Incidentally, your experience was not related to the design. It seems like you got a misfit.
I'd be very interested in what Stan's had to say about it, if you contacted them.
If you didn't contact them and had a concern about the fit of tires on your rim and repeated blow-offs... how did you expect to get it resolved... if you expected to get it resolved?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The marketing BS I'm referring to is the contention they make, and you cite, that the bead seat diameter is all that matters.

Stan's wanted me to send the rim back to them. I was unwilling to spend close to the price of the rim for round trip shipping as I'd rather return to a known, proven formula (per my experience). Hence why I was wondering if anybody else had compared diameters as per my photos.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Actually...

That's kind of where I'm coming from. UST tires are what, $50 at least and with limited selection and weight penalty?

I had great success converting a $25 tire non UST for 7 years and would like to continue to do so rather than burn thru another $300/yr in UST tires needlessly. It's worth switching rims for $100 just so I can continue down that non UST $ saving route.
 

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That's kind of where I'm coming from. UST tires are what, $50 at least and with limited selection and weight penalty?

I had great success converting a $25 tire non UST for 7 years and would like to continue to do so rather than burn thru another $300/yr in UST tires needlessly. It's worth switching rims for $100 just so I can continue down that non UST $ saving route.
Then why all the belly-aching?

You knowingly sit yourself up for problems then come here to whine, *****, moan and complain?

PS: Are you saying all the problems are worth $175? Geez.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Is it not possible to come on here, ask a simple question, post a picture and explain the background without getting flamed for insulting the 'delicate genius' of Stan's?

Seeing as $ seems so irrelevant to you, can you send me some UST tires so I don't have to whine, complain, and bellyache?;)
 

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Is it not possible to come on here, ask a simple question)
My suggestion is new rims.
In the light/wide area Alex's new Supra 30s are great. 30mm wide, mine weigh 500g exactly (claimed 470, but claims mean nothing), more importantly, proper rim profile that plays nice with normal tyres.

No idea about tubeless, too lazy for that.

Or Mavic 819s for pure tubeless rims, or DT, or anything that isn't a mid level Sun Rim with new stickers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Wow, that rim looks pretty sweet! That's light for that width. I had an older set of pinned Alex rims that came stock on a Giant and they were good. These are welded to boot! Very interested! Thanks.
 

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The marketing BS I'm referring to is the contention they make, and you cite, that the bead seat diameter is all that matters.
Marketing BS actually contains information. Read it and make an educated decision - not blindly follow.

I mentioned that No Tubes kicked the industry into developing more tubeless options, research them. I also mentioned NotTubes is not a perfect solution - there are now better ones.

Look for a rim with a bead seat lock - WTB, Spank have these. DT Swiss has a rim strip with a bead lock. All are similar to your Maxxis system. All have "marketing" that explain what these bead lock systems do. Research and see if it is a good fit for you.

Something doesn't sound right with your rims or tires.

P
 
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