Flagstaff Upper Moto Trail Day this SATURDAY
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Joined
·
4,482 Posts
All that aside, I honestly don't know what the backstory is to wanting to realign upper moto. Might be a flow improvement project, more likely it's an erosion issue. But Mark Gullo is super-responsive to anyone who wants to talk with him. Drop him a line!
p.
p.
Weak, where has the tech riding gone??
True flag riders miss the techy stuff of old like rock rid and the old hobbitt forest. Of course it used to be rocky ridge. So many pansies here, we should pave all the trails and completely remove all the rocks. Erosion will happen to any trail regardless so leave moto alone. Riding up moto will make you such a better rider as we do it weekly. Sure no none ever truly cleans it, but that's the beauty of it. In theory things always sound better, but in reality we miss the technical stuff. If we want buff trails here, move to oregon or something. If you don't like rocks b/c they hurt, get some pads and some huevos and ride it, or walk it. Don't ruin the stuff us locals live here for.
True flag riders miss the techy stuff of old like rock rid and the old hobbitt forest. Of course it used to be rocky ridge. So many pansies here, we should pave all the trails and completely remove all the rocks. Erosion will happen to any trail regardless so leave moto alone. Riding up moto will make you such a better rider as we do it weekly. Sure no none ever truly cleans it, but that's the beauty of it. In theory things always sound better, but in reality we miss the technical stuff. If we want buff trails here, move to oregon or something. If you don't like rocks b/c they hurt, get some pads and some huevos and ride it, or walk it. Don't ruin the stuff us locals live here for.
Joined
·
4,482 Posts
Agreed on all points. So you can either participate and make sure no more Rocky Ridges ever happen again, or you can sit on your ass and complain when trail work is done that you don't like.
Not all trail work is bad. In fact, the vast majority of it is good. And by volunteering your time, you get a stronger voice with USFS down the road.
p.
Not all trail work is bad. In fact, the vast majority of it is good. And by volunteering your time, you get a stronger voice with USFS down the road.
p.
Joined
·
8,091 Posts
just so you know if you didn't already....
upper moto is also referred to as Supermoto and is above the pipeline. This trail was built by local bikers in the early 1990s as a connector between Secret Trail/W. Orion Springs and lower Moto. It used to be pretty fast and moderately technical, but was never built with any kind of sustainability in mind and has eroded into a rock pile with multiple lines. The reroute is actually pretty cool and is located just to the west. It will have a few options where you can choose a technical braid for drops, etc. The lower section is rideable and takes a neat route up through the ridgeline. The motorocycle guys are also involved and have taken much of the lead role on this one. A spotted owl nesting site may also be part of the issue with the FS, at least it is with Secret trail.
upper moto is also referred to as Supermoto and is above the pipeline. This trail was built by local bikers in the early 1990s as a connector between Secret Trail/W. Orion Springs and lower Moto. It used to be pretty fast and moderately technical, but was never built with any kind of sustainability in mind and has eroded into a rock pile with multiple lines. The reroute is actually pretty cool and is located just to the west. It will have a few options where you can choose a technical braid for drops, etc. The lower section is rideable and takes a neat route up through the ridgeline. The motorocycle guys are also involved and have taken much of the lead role on this one. A spotted owl nesting site may also be part of the issue with the FS, at least it is with Secret trail.
Joined
·
8,091 Posts
some more info
I played golf with Gullo this am and the new upper Moto will cross the old one twice and then join Secret trail some 200 yds west of the current T junction. From there the western part of Secret over to the jeep road (Wild and Wooly) will become a system trail and the east section to Friedlien Prarie Rd will be closed or at the very least there will be some major rerouting. Apparently, the US Fish and Wildlife biologists are concerned not only about the spotted owl nesting site but goshawks as well. Upper Moto is slated for completion by October.
There's going to be quite a bit of rerouting on Schultz Creek. Much of it is already completed, just not tied in. All of it is on the eastern side where there are closely spaced "creek crossings". This one is of FS and not FBO origin or direction. Not sure the need for a creek that flows for 2 weeks every couple of years but rarely is my carcass out there doing maintaining or building.
I played golf with Gullo this am and the new upper Moto will cross the old one twice and then join Secret trail some 200 yds west of the current T junction. From there the western part of Secret over to the jeep road (Wild and Wooly) will become a system trail and the east section to Friedlien Prarie Rd will be closed or at the very least there will be some major rerouting. Apparently, the US Fish and Wildlife biologists are concerned not only about the spotted owl nesting site but goshawks as well. Upper Moto is slated for completion by October.
There's going to be quite a bit of rerouting on Schultz Creek. Much of it is already completed, just not tied in. All of it is on the eastern side where there are closely spaced "creek crossings". This one is of FS and not FBO origin or direction. Not sure the need for a creek that flows for 2 weeks every couple of years but rarely is my carcass out there doing maintaining or building.
Joined
·
4,482 Posts
Interesting decisions, mostly tied into unifying the Fort Valley stuff into the existing Elden stuff it sounds like. Thanks for the details!
It doesn't sound like anyone's doing any sort of massive change to the character of the trails up there (except maybe supermoto, whose character is defined by poor sustainability -- I'd have a hard time rationalizing a trail constructed with self-destruction as a design goal).
p.
It doesn't sound like anyone's doing any sort of massive change to the character of the trails up there (except maybe supermoto, whose character is defined by poor sustainability -- I'd have a hard time rationalizing a trail constructed with self-destruction as a design goal).
p.
Joined
·
8,091 Posts
Demon mountain bikers destroying Schultz Creek
Interesting bit of misinformation from the editor of Flag's rag http://azdailysun.com/articles/2006/07/27/news/outdoors/20060727_outdoors_42.txt
I think the writer, while entitled to his opinion, didn't get his facts right. First of all, much of Schultz Creek trail is wide because it was a road in the 1930s to and past the CCC camp that built Schultz Pass Rd. Tying the trail to impacts to the creek are tenuous at best. There is some minor bank widening at the trail crossings. And I'm guessing wildlife is just as much affected by the presence of the road. I really like the suggestion of closing the trail to bikes but keeping it open to "low-impact" equestrians.
Playing hooky from work this am I rode up Schultz and yep the FS is going full bore. There's a substantial reroute of the upper section (from the caution sign near the log gate for a couple of hundred yards downstream) in the works. While I'll miss riding through the cutleaf coneflowers in that section it does look like they're building some nice trail. I had a chat with the FS supervisor and she raised an interesting point that I hadn't thought of. There may be a possibility in the future of restoring natural flow to the creek (discontinuing the wells in the inner basin). Eliminating some of the 27 or so creek crossings may not be a bad idea although I'm still not sure that the flow would change much if the wells were removed. Anyway, check it out. From the size of the crew I bet it'll be a done deal in another few days.
Interesting bit of misinformation from the editor of Flag's rag http://azdailysun.com/articles/2006/07/27/news/outdoors/20060727_outdoors_42.txt
I think the writer, while entitled to his opinion, didn't get his facts right. First of all, much of Schultz Creek trail is wide because it was a road in the 1930s to and past the CCC camp that built Schultz Pass Rd. Tying the trail to impacts to the creek are tenuous at best. There is some minor bank widening at the trail crossings. And I'm guessing wildlife is just as much affected by the presence of the road. I really like the suggestion of closing the trail to bikes but keeping it open to "low-impact" equestrians.
Playing hooky from work this am I rode up Schultz and yep the FS is going full bore. There's a substantial reroute of the upper section (from the caution sign near the log gate for a couple of hundred yards downstream) in the works. While I'll miss riding through the cutleaf coneflowers in that section it does look like they're building some nice trail. I had a chat with the FS supervisor and she raised an interesting point that I hadn't thought of. There may be a possibility in the future of restoring natural flow to the creek (discontinuing the wells in the inner basin). Eliminating some of the 27 or so creek crossings may not be a bad idea although I'm still not sure that the flow would change much if the wells were removed. Anyway, check it out. From the size of the crew I bet it'll be a done deal in another few days.
Joined
·
58 Posts
this issue deserves its own thread.
i suggest rockman or the powers-that-be (aka paulb) move this to a thread of its own, up-top, front-page... cause, to me, somethings STINKS here... where/when/how did this get planned, granted, or approved without ANYONE i know knowing about it ahead of time?
i suggest rockman or the powers-that-be (aka paulb) move this to a thread of its own, up-top, front-page... cause, to me, somethings STINKS here... where/when/how did this get planned, granted, or approved without ANYONE i know knowing about it ahead of time?
rockman said:Interesting bit of misinformation from the editor of Flag's rag http://azdailysun.com/articles/2006/07/27/news/outdoors/20060727_outdoors_42.txt
I think the writer, while entitled to his opinion, didn't get his facts right. First of all, much of Schultz Creek trail is wide because it was a road in the 1930s to and past the CCC camp that built Schultz Pass Rd. Tying the trail to impacts to the creek are tenuous at best. There is some minor bank widening at the trail crossings. And I'm guessing wildlife is just as much affected by the presence of the road. I really like the suggestion of closing the trail to bikes but keeping it open to "low-impact" equestrians.
Playing hooky from work this am I rode up Schultz and yep the FS is going full bore. There's a substantial reroute of the upper section (from the caution sign near the log gate for a couple of hundred yards downstream) in the works. While I'll miss riding through the cutleaf coneflowers in that section it does look like they're building some nice trail. I had a chat with the FS supervisor and she raised an interesting point that I hadn't thought of. There may be a possibility in the future of restoring natural flow to the creek (discontinuing the wells in the inner basin). Eliminating some of the 27 or so creek crossings may not be a bad idea although I'm still not sure that the flow would change much if the wells were removed. Anyway, check it out. From the size of the crew I bet it'll be a done deal in another few days.
Joined
·
8,091 Posts
FBO and Gullo meet regularly with the FS and Gullo knew about it. And some of the construction began 2 months ago. From talking to the crew chief I got the impression that besides impacts to the creek, increased line of sight to reduce trail altercations and sustainability were also factors.
Joined
·
4,482 Posts
Okay, so I check out the work they're doing on Schultz and here are my impressions.
The new bit of Schultz they're building is at one of the lowest, wettest spots of the streambed, just below the tight-ish turn with the "DANGER!" sign at the top of it. So far there's not a lot of it built and it's shut off from use so far. It runs about 10-15' higher along the high bank of the stream, and it looks well constructed so far. So instead of dropping so fast and deep into the stream, you'll stay higher, longer. It looks well constructed, and sidecutting isn't easy work.
I get what they're trying to do, but it does seem unnecessary since this trail has existed on the current alignment for decades at this point. I suppose it's better to take care of potential wear problems now than let things get worse (if they were "bad" in the first place).
All in all it seems like a pretty undisruptive change. The character of the trail will not be changed.
p.
The new bit of Schultz they're building is at one of the lowest, wettest spots of the streambed, just below the tight-ish turn with the "DANGER!" sign at the top of it. So far there's not a lot of it built and it's shut off from use so far. It runs about 10-15' higher along the high bank of the stream, and it looks well constructed so far. So instead of dropping so fast and deep into the stream, you'll stay higher, longer. It looks well constructed, and sidecutting isn't easy work.
I get what they're trying to do, but it does seem unnecessary since this trail has existed on the current alignment for decades at this point. I suppose it's better to take care of potential wear problems now than let things get worse (if they were "bad" in the first place).
All in all it seems like a pretty undisruptive change. The character of the trail will not be changed.
p.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Join the discussion
