[Moozh]

Hello folks,
I had my maiden voyage on my new Mission 2, "twas splendid". Nothing over the top as it was it's very first ride and mine on a FS 'sickle. A couple of hours getting familiar with character, traits, component behaviour kinda stuff. I still wore myself out and had a good workout.

it does have a bit of weight to the old gal but for its "mission", I expect that it should. It certainly feels burly enough to take whatever I and my 240LBS have to give to it and it performed superbly. Thanks to you fellas that encouraged me to go for the 19" (Large) model, it fit perfectly!

Cutting to the chase; I wonder if someone could explain to me what I should expect/experience with the propedal switch engaged on the rear shock. I wasn't exactly sure which direction the switch had to be to have engaged propedal. I somewhat expected to experience some sort of "lockout" of the shock somewhat like on the front fork but from what I could gauge the rear was still compressing and when I "put my head down and leant on it" there was still "bobbing". This was with the switch in either direction (the knob was on 3, supposedly the "firm" setting). I did this so that I could determine which direction was open and which was "ProPedal engaged" but I am still uncertain. I cant say I noticed a discernable difference in the behaviour of the rear.

The shock was set at a PSI the same as my weight..240psi, I believe I had the rebound ring one rotation (2 clicks) from full, thus a more aggressive rebound.

Frankly it wasn't as if anything was amiss, it still pedaled well, rode well, climbed and descended impressively.

I could feel the extra weight while pedaling compared to my other bike and noted the additional energy and effort expended in comparison but that's a very much lighter xc HT race bike. I suppose the wider and knobbier tires could have been a contributing factor with regards roll resistance but the modest additional energy expended compared to my other rig was noticed. Not good or bad, it certainly isn't a featherweight race bike. Truth be told the old engine isnt was it used to be anyhow.

All in all an enjoyable "getting to know you" session with the newest addition to the stable and the bike I hope to be the one that allows me to stay out there longer on more diverse terrain in greater comfort than I have been able to manage so far.

Oops..btw, while sitting on the bike and reaching down which direction should the switch be to engage propedal? Left or right?

 

[Moozh]

magic of youtube:...switch left=open, right=propedal

 

[yogidave]

PP is interesting

I recently (6 months ago) build up a Mission and got rid of a different single pivot-type bike, a Jamis XLT (my first FS bike).

Let me see if I can explain shock platform to you like this (and educate myself in the process):

The XLT originally came with a Manitou Swinger SPV (Stable Platform Valve) rear shock that had a main air chamber (primary spring) and an SPV air chamber that essentially acted as a counter force to the air spring which can be "programmed" by the rider to open when a certain pre-programmed threshold (air pressure in counter spring chamber) is exceeded by an impact such as a big rock hitting the rear wheel. Make no mistake, the SPV mechanism was extremely effective at making a FS pedal like a hard tail if the pressure in the SPV chamber is high enough. However, the transition between closed and open is extremely sharp and jarring when the set up to cancel pedal bobbing. It felt like something broke loose when it opened. It was digital, either open of closed, 1 or 0.

After a few years of riding it and riding other really expensive bikes (DW links, VPP, horst link, etc), I realized the limitations of the single pivot. I also realized the rear shock was limiting the bike, so I switched the rear shock to a a Fox RP3 (LIKE but not the same as current RP23) with propedal (PP). This shock had 3 settings: Open (i.e. no platform), P1 and PP2 (most platform). It was a Medium ProPedal configuration. The PP idea is similar to SPV, but does not use air (oil flow through compression circuit) and the transitions between "platform" and "open" are extremely well controlled/dialed with a somewhat progressive (analog vs digital) transition from closed/platform to open. This was a vast improvement on this basic single pivot design bike and prevented me from justifying a new bike..... for a while. But in the end, this particular single pivot design has fatal flaws (rear brake jacking, etc) that I could just simply not deal with.

On the Jamis, the PP "open" is great for flat/rocky trail and downhill. The PP1 offered some platform while PP2 was great for smooth climbs (i.e. fire roads or buff ST).

On the Mission 3 I got this year (frame purchase + my custom spec build), I have a Fox RP23 with three ranges of PP and a on/off switch. The Mission is also a single pivot design, but has a much more sophisticated axle path and leverage ratio control mechanism: knuckle box. I suggest that you look at the DB website for the knuckle box @ http://www.knucklebox.com/# and look at #1: Optimized wheel rate graph and imagine that PP moves the "zero" point on the travel vs force diagram up in terms of force required to initiate swing arm travel. PP is nice in that you get just a little sag without completely LOCKING the rear like with an SPV shock. I run the main air spring pressure near my body weight and adjust the PP definitely changes the bike.

Fox has several "configurations" for PP shocks: Low/Med/High. Each application gets a configuration based on application (ie leverage ratio) and the shock adjusts around that configuration. This is not something you can adjust (not easily, anyway) and is internal to the mechanics of the shock. Low:Open/PP1/PP2/PP3, Med::Open/PP1/PP2/PP3,High::Open/PP1/PP2/PP3. I believe the Mission is a Medium configuration, but I could be wrong.... (each shock has a picture on it that looks like a cellphone signal meter with 3 bars with one highlighted indicating which configuration it is).

I actually think I prefer the PP function of the older RP3 vs the fancier RP23. I like being able to select Open/PP1/PP2 with a single switch as opposed to the dial that you can only really adjust from a dead stop and partial dismount.

If you are willing to spend $2000 on a frame such as a DW Link (Ibis Mojo or Pivot) or a VPP (Intense Tracer or Blur LT) , you will not need propedal. I've ridden these and understand the difference and believe me when I tell you that as much as I LOVE my Mission, I would trade it in a heartbeat for a Mojo or Pivot or Tracer. But then there is the fact that my Mission frame was <$400 (used + bearing overhaul) and it does work extremely well for a single pivot; so well that I'm really happy.

I suggest that you set up your Mission with PP off and first adjust the main spring pressure (start at riding weight) to achieve about 25% sag (more if you are doing DH, drops, etc) and then adjust rebound until comfortable. Only then fiddle with propedal.

Google this: how does fox pro pedal work

 

[DavidNeiles]

First off; Mission is not a single pivot design, it is a fourbar linkage and it climbs really well compared to other brands like the ones you mentioned above. DW, VPP, Maestro, Knuckle Box, it all works great!
Short and sweet, PP is just a compression lever to firm up the compression stroke and help eliminate any " pedal bob" . If you put it on for long climbing or fire roads you will have less sag to a degree but still have an active suspension when need be. Cool thing about Knuckle box is it is a really active suspension and really no pedal feedback, just a buttery smooth stroke with a bottomless feel.

PP is not a lock out, common misconsepection. So with 3 PP setting you can tune it to your liking for less aggressive trails. I personally rarely, if ever, use PP(if I do I have it on 1), I find the bike to climb over stuff, track, and pedal better open and just get better rear wheel traction IMO.
PP is a great way to find that sweet spot you might need in some cases. Just find what you like and go for it , Always set up sag with PP off and go for around 25% sag, + or - 5%. Then try PP on a certain trail and ride it a few times with the 3 different settings and open. See what you think.

 

[yogidave]

First off; Mission is not a single pivot design, it is a fourbar linkage and it climbs really well compared to other brands like the ones you mentioned above. DW, VPP, Maestro, Knuckle Box, it all works great!
Short and sweet, PP is just a compression lever to firm up the compression stroke and help eliminate any " pedal bob" . If you put it on for long climbing or fire roads you will have less sag to a degree but still have an active suspension when need be. Cool thing about Knuckle box is it is a really active suspension and really no pedal feedback, just a buttery smooth stroke with a bottomless feel.

PP is not a lock out, common misconsepection. So with 3 PP setting you can tune it to your liking for less aggressive trails. I personally rarely, if ever, use PP(if I do I have it on 1), I find the bike to climb over stuff, track, and pedal better open and just get better rear wheel traction IMO.
PP is a great way to find that sweet spot you might need in some cases. Just find what you like and go for it , Always set up sag with PP off and go for around 25% sag, + or - 5%. Then try PP on a certain trail and ride it a few times with the 3 different settings and open. See what you think.

I agree with Dave.... he's a great source of info for DB bikes with the Knucklebox. After all he has (or has had) a whole mess of them...

On this bike, I find the propedal helps when doing sustained steep climbing because it prevents the seat tube angle from decreasing during shock compression. But it comes at a cost: plushness.

I can climb a lot on this bike (more than my last Faux bar), I just often do it faster with PP on. When you climb 1500 vertical right out of the car on every ride like I do around Boulder, every little bit helps stave off fatigue for the techy, rocky bits and DH.

 

[Moozh]

YogiDave, many thanks for taking the time to be as descriptive as you have, It's appreciated.

I'm new enough that the array of options and approaches to how the various category of mountainbike can be equpped, setup and utilized is still overwhelming. Prior to reentering Mtbing earlier this year the last time I had one was circa 1999, a cannondale m400, so everything was rigid and rugged..I still have it as it has been resurrected and re-purposed for boardwalk bomber duties, so my re-entry stunned me with the seeming innumerable choices out there. I'm truly not worthy of the bikes that are those "holy grails" and the pricepoints of them are far beyond what I ever can stomach paying for a bike.

I will hopefully be taking my next ride tomorrow so that I can lend closer attention to pedaling and cycle dynamics when employing and opening the propedal switch. I had presumptively assumed that it was some lockout mechanism to complement the one of the front shock to facilitate climbing efficiency but I see it is something dynamically different.

I took your advice and googled about regarding Fox Pro Pedal and how it works and think I get the gist of it but I also suspect it will not have optimal effect on a person of my weight (lemme be honest...about 250LBS with gear). I've seen suggestions that it seems more effective with folks under the 170lbs mark or so as a bigger rider will be putting forces on the rear that will promote the occurence of hits large enough to have the bike go thru its full suspension stroke and the propedal is more geared toward controlling/dampening the small hits which pedal bobbing may fall under.

Again, even tho I had read enough information and did my homework before purchase I plainly had to feel it to understand it. And understand that none of this is a criticism at all, I simply was not correct in what I assumed it was. The bike was awesome and I had a great first ride and for the attributes that steered me towards this bike; the comfort, the ergos, the versatility, all points that will allow me to stay out riding longer and tackle more diverse terrain.. I couldnt be more pleased.

I did spend time making sure the bike was set up and have the sag just about at 25%, compression and rebound characteristics both front and rear feel nice and balanced and behave as I would expect..no surprises, no wallow, no bucking, no pitching..

As time progresses, seat time will continue to inform me..

thanks again for taking the time to be detailed..

EDIT: Thanks to you too David. I had this response written but not posted for a few hours, so didnt see your input until after I came home noticed it and hit the 'post' button. I've seen your other posts about this corner of the thread, you plainly are a font of wisdom with regards the DB range so thanks for adding clarity.

 

[DavidNeiles]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Your welcome, Read the Fox website and the Fox supsension DVD, It is a great read through to understand your suspension better, how it works, how to tune it, maintaince, maintaince intervels, specs, every tiny part in side your fork and shock and of course oil volume levels. Have fun and let post up any Q's you got!!