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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Going to change my Fox AVA on my 03 Heckler to one of the above.
Which is the question ??!! :confused:

The change comes cause i need (and want ) SPV ( i XC a lot ) & bottoming-out-control(5++ footers -- very important …)

Two main thoughts and a question guide me through this decision:

The thoughts:

a.The Manitou is lighter (about 400gr lighter!!)

b.Only the 5th can be found now at 2.25" stroke (for the same eye to eyelength) rather than the 2" stroke of other models. This pushes the Heckler's rear travel from 5" to 5.6" - The extra travel is very welcome while launching those drops on the Heckler…

The question:

What general differences, suspension wise, should I expect between the shocks given that one is air and one is coil??


What do you think ???

Any tip thought and theory is welcome.

Rares
 

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I have an 04 heckler that came with a 5th Element coil and can report that the shock works as promised. The only problem that I had with it was that I was too lazy to play around with all the adjustments. I had waited so long for the frame that once I actually got it I didn't want to waste any more time not riding!

Coincidentally, I ordered a manitou swinger 4-way for my old K2, since I knew the Heckler would take a while. In the end, both the shock and the Heckler arrived at the same time. So I just rode the heckler and my K2 gathered dust. I finally decided to try the 4-way on the heckler.

I can report that there is very little difference in the feel of the shocks when riding. The 4-way seems to have a bit more stiction (or what ever they call it), but it also seems to have more adjustability in the rebound dampening (less dampening seems to counter act any stiction). I guess since they both share the same SPV license from Curnutt, the real difference is the coil vs. an air canister to support the weight. So believe it or not I cannot say one is better than the other (and I usually notice these things). I'm gonna stick with the 4-way since it's slightly lighter (see the weight-weenie web site for a more realistic weight - not that much diff. from the 5th coil)

I will be selling my 5th on ebay in the next week or two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Reporting from WeightWeenies.com...

Friar said:
I have an 04 heckler that came with a 5th Element coil and can report that the shock works as promised. The only problem that I had with it was that I was too lazy to play around with all the adjustments. I had waited so long for the frame that once I actually got it I didn't want to waste any more time not riding!

Coincidentally, I ordered a manitou swinger 4-way for my old K2, since I knew the Heckler would take a while. In the end, both the shock and the Heckler arrived at the same time. So I just rode the heckler and my K2 gathered dust. I finally decided to try the 4-way on the heckler.

I can report that there is very little difference in the feel of the shocks when riding. The 4-way seems to have a bit more stiction (or what ever they call it), but it also seems to have more adjustability in the rebound dampening (less dampening seems to counter act any stiction). I guess since they both share the same SPV license from Curnutt, the real difference is the coil vs. an air canister to support the weight. So believe it or not I cannot say one is better than the other (and I usually notice these things). I'm gonna stick with the 4-way since it's slightly lighter (see the weight-weenie web site for a more realistic weight - not that much diff. from the 5th coil)

I will be selling my 5th on ebay in the next week or two.
The actual (huge) diff between the shocks weight :

Progressive Suspension 5th Element (steel spring) 2002 937 g

Manitou Swinger Air SPV 4-Way 2003 465 g

Thats a different weight we got here :eek:
Especialy for the same preformance you claim with to them...

Is that 5th a 2.25" stroke ??

Thanks ,

Rares
 

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License from Curnutt?

Just a point of fact. We do not "license" it from Curnutt. Progressive owns the patent for Control Valve Technology (CV/t) and we license the technology to Manitou because we wanted the technology in forks. When Roy Turner (our VP of R&D) bought the technology from Charles Curnett Sr. the agreement was to let Charles Curnutt Jr. have a limited amount of sales from the technology. So the Matitou SPV derives from our owned technology.
 

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My 03 Manitou Swinger 4 Way Air shock failed after 2 rides. There was an air leak from the main piston into the negative chamber, so the shock 'sucked in' and was permanently stuck in a shortened mode. Good thing, Answer replaced it for free.

There is a huge difference between an air shock and a coil shock. The coil shocks are more plush. Air shocks tend to be more harsh, especially near the fully compressed range of their stroke. For big hits and bomber freeriding, go with a coil. For all day long epic cross country where weight matters, go with the air. Either way, it is a good idea to have a spare shock, so that when your main shock fails, you have a back-up that you can swap out in a day. These modern day shocks are not that easy to rebuild yourself, so you have to send them back to the factory for service. And most of them actually recommend a once-a-year servicing at the factory. Good luck, and my advice is to go with the 5th Coil, or the Swinger Coil - stay away from air.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks, I'm going for the fifth - hell with the wieght...

Gonz said:
My 03 Manitou Swinger 4 Way Air shock failed after 2 rides. There was an air leak from the main piston into the negative chamber, so the shock 'sucked in' and was permanently stuck in a shortened mode. Good thing, Answer replaced it for free.

There is a huge difference between an air shock and a coil shock. The coil shocks are more plush. Air shocks tend to be more harsh, especially near the fully compressed range of their stroke. For big hits and bomber freeriding, go with a coil. For all day long epic cross country where weight matters, go with the air. Either way, it is a good idea to have a spare shock, so that when your main shock fails, you have a back-up that you can swap out in a day. These modern day shocks are not that easy to rebuild yourself, so you have to send them back to the factory for service. And most of them actually recommend a once-a-year servicing at the factory. Good luck, and my advice is to go with the 5th Coil, or the Swinger Coil - stay away from air.
It seems that we don't know yet how durable the Manitou air is. Though there is a better chance of durability form Prog. after more than a year of expirience. :rolleyes:

Rares
 
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