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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1) why do bikes cost so freaking much?

After buying a used bike and riding a bit, I decided to read some of the bike reviews on here to see if I could swing a new bike and which ones to look at. Well, these bikes are 6k and up, some close to 10K. Even when looking at some of the cheaper build outs your looking at 3-6K. Why? Are the components that expensive to build? Is aluminum or carbon frames really cost that much...is there a big up charge on these. Is it just the market? I would just think manufacturing would keep these prices in reach for the average consumer. Sorry, just asking.

2) why is it that when folks sell a used bike, it is alway minus the pedals? I mean, you have a used bike your selling for 5K and your keeping the pedals? Don't get that. Is there some emotional attachment to pedals or what?

3) read on some ads that people were moving a bike because it had too much travel. They weren't DH bikes, these were all referring to bikes with 120 or 140mm fork. Will it really make that much difference to go down 20 or 40 mm in the fork travel? Enough to make you sell your "beloved" bike.


4) is there some write up somewhere to help understand bike geometry. Like if you do adjust the tube head angle this is the result in handling or feel etc.

5) is there a good podcast that takes about bikes, components, riding technique, maintenance etc. seemed the ones I looked up were really covering racing events etc.



Okay, all for now. Thanks in advance.
 

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I ride bikes
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I'll take a stab...

1. There are many reasons that bikes cost so much. Mainly, the market is supporting it. If people keep spending more money on bikes and components, their will be more R&D, prices will rise, bikes will become better.
Now, after a certain price point there are diminishing returns. I just bought a bike for $1200 with all high end components. Yeah its a 26" wheel but i love 26ers. (now is a good time to buy a 26er)

2. People usually keep the pedals because they have the cleats on their shoes that fit those specific pedals. Also, really nice pedals are not cheap.

3. It depends on the discipline. If someone wants to get into xc racing, usually they will want something with 100-120 mm travel. But there is more to take into account than just travel. There is weight, geometry, etc. I have ridden everything from full rigid to 160mm fs on xc trails to dh descents. Its all mtn biking to me, but some bikes are better at some things than others. Right now I have a playful 140mm bike.

4. http://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-corner/noob-guide-geometry-bike-fit-handling-826673.html

5. https://www.youtube.com/user/mtbtips
This guy is super annoying, but he has a lot of great tips. I am sure there are more.

Hope this helps,

Moe
 

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1. This is a hotly debated topic. In my opinion it is mostly the market and what people are willing to pay.

2. New, high end bikes typically do not come with pedals either. This is because there are a few different styles of clipless pedals that require different cleats and are personal preference (Shimano vs. Time, for example). So, people keep their pedals to put on their new bike...pretty standard stuff.

3. Typically, bikes with longer travel have "slacker" geometry more suited for going down hill than XC type riding. So, if someone was looking to go with less travel they are probably also looking for a more XC style geometry (see answer 4).

4. http://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-corner/noob-guide-geometry-bike-fit-handling-826673.html

5. I haven't found any podcasts like that. I listen to "The Dirt" on Mountain Bike Radio pretty often...but that usually covers racing and other MTB events/festivals. For more info on that kind of stuff check the sticky threads at the top of this forum.

Hope that helps.
 

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you really need to spend a bunch more time researching...you certainly do not have to spend anywhere near "3-6K..."

that is like suggesting, you start car shopping @ the BMW dealer :eekster:
 

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you really need to spend a bunch more time researching...you certainly do not have to spend anywhere near "3-6K..."

that is like suggesting, you start car shopping @ the BMW dealer :eekster:
That's right, and nobody " needs" the 8-10K bikes. You may need to spend 1500 to 2500 for durability if you ride alot. You're free to spend however much you can afford, but a $2000 bike won't hold you back or limit your fun.
 

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Fat-tired Roadie
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1) I think the bike companies have really poor economies of scale. They don't ship that many of any given frame - look how many Tauruses are on the road, vs. all bikes combined - and they have a ton of pricepoint variations within a given model. Sizes, too. And they use pretty expensive manufacturing processes. There's a ton of sheet metal in your car. There is almost none in a bicycle. Lots of welding and machining, though. Machine work is expensive. Even large quantities and CNC don't make things that much cheaper. There's still a surprising amount of labor involved.

Sports equipment uses technologies that industry doesn't touch because of the expense. Stuff like hydroformed and butted tubes, carbon fiber, fancier alloys...

Don't forget, you can still buy a BSO for $89 at Walmart. They leverage economies of scale and inexpensive manufacturing techniques. The result blows, but it is an object shaped like a bike. I think there could be better offerings filling in the $150-$1500 (MSRP) region but the people who buy an $89 bike are pretty purely price-driven and won't spend that and the rest of us either take a deep breathe and plunk down the plastic, buy a bike from that price range and chip away at the build over time or buy secondhand. There are always choices.

There are also a lot of middlemen.

4) I think this is pretty academic until you ride some bikes.
 

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1. It does seem unusual. By the time you are good enough to maybe justify a top end bike---
you know specific components you want and you already have them.
But somebody(who gets 50 off and works as mt manager at your lbs) has to be buyin them.
3, Too much travel can ruin the fun of your trails. might as well just ride on a road.
4. Demo days are your best learning tool on this.
5. Pinkbikes Tech Tuesday vids are good on maintenance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh I'm not suggesting that one should spend that much on a bike in order to get a decent sled. I'm just saying that as I look around at bikes that folks on here consistently give good feed back on, if it is built out even with X7 or SLX components, the price easily starts at 3k. It may be somewhat easy to see who are the McLararens and Bugattis of the bike world and who are the Ford Fiestas, but it is harder to tell who is good in the middle. And those that I'm guessing are in the middle are still at 3k or more. Just an observation.
 

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Fat-tired Roadie
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Nope. Middle's lower than that. I think more like $1500 for hardtails and $2000 for FS. That's a nice build one can ride stock long-term.

The top end has really exploded over the last several years. But just because companies specify and advertise them doesn't mean they sell very many. They're great for aspirational marketing though. There was an article on Halo Bikes a while ago in which they mentioned that those bikes actually sell out. But, I suspect they're deliberately not ramping up production. Now and then, a boutique model shows up all over Chainlove and similar sites; you know the manufacturer blew it on guesstimating demand.

Generalities aside, what kind of riding do you want to do? What are you comfortable spending?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ideally I'm looking for a FS 650b, ideally with DW link (but that is just from reading some articles not from actual experience). I'd mainly do local trails and some XC stuff. Nothing crazy. I want it to be light (I could live with 30lbs) I want good components, doesn't need to be the best....so I was thinking X9 or XT. I want something that will last, something that I can use for the next 10 years or more. While I don't want to blow a bunch of cash, I don't want to go cheap. You know the ol' saying.."somethings are too expensive to buy cheap." I say top end of 4K, ideally 2K or less. Don't mind going used either. I'm not necessarily looking to buy now, unless I cross a deal I cannot pass up.

So who are the solid middle class in bikes?
 

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Fat-tired Roadie
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LOL, hook line and sinker. DW link is pretty much just on boutique bikes. No wonder you think they're so expensive! X9 and XT are also the second most expensive components in their respective lines, though SRAM makes things confusing. You don't need to go nearly that high-end. Do it if you like, but it's not a requirement and I don't believe those lines win on COO either.

10 years is expecting a lot from a bicycle. Especially off-road. Think in terms of a budget you're comfortable spending again in 5. If you get more, that's a bonus.

When's the last time you rode a bike?

For mid-price, it's mostly the majors - Specialized, Trek, Giant. Cannondale, to a lesser extent. There are some smaller but non-boutique brands too. I like my Kona, and there are some other brands with a following. Do this in the other direction - find out what your local bike shops carry. Then look at those brands.
 

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Just wanna hop on here real quick... Giant's suspension design is a modified DW-link.

That said, don't let that be your primary purchasing reason... See what everyone around you is using and try stuff out before buying.
 

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Clueless genius
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Nowadays, it's very difficult to find a bad suspension design amongst proper mountain bikes. And to boot, as a beginner...you're really not going to notice much of a difference between a single pivot, DW, VPP, or hottest-marketing-term suspension platform. Proper shock setup makes a far bigger difference for your average rider than any acronym! Find what your local shops sell, research those bikes and compare your options.
 

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1) why do bikes cost so freaking much?

Bike is not expensive, they are pretty cheap actually, last I check you can get many bike 29er included at the big box store for as little as about $100. That said they are not for off road riding. You can go the other way and get really heavy beefy frame and build up cheap but you are not going to enjoy the mountain biking experience much.

So the entry level mountain bike start at about $400 at LBS, I think it's a bargain. Overpriced if you are riding that on the paved road.:thumbsup:

After buying a used bike and riding a bit, I decided to read some of the bike reviews on here to see if I could swing a new bike and which ones to look at. Well, these bikes are 6k and up, some close to 10K. Even when looking at some of the cheaper build outs your looking at 3-6K. Why? Are the components that expensive to build? Is aluminum or carbon frames really cost that much...is there a big up charge on these. Is it just the market? I would just think manufacturing would keep these prices in reach for the average consumer. Sorry, just asking.

2) why is it that when folks sell a used bike, it is alway minus the pedals? I mean, you have a used bike your selling for 5K and your keeping the pedals? Don't get that. Is there some emotional attachment to pedals or what?

Bike people are inherently snobbish, since there are so many different cleat retention systems it's best not to offend anyone and leave it out. If you are buying a used bike from me I'd ask you which one of the entry level SPD or Egg beater models you want me to put on the bike for you.;)



3) read on some ads that people were moving a bike because it had too much travel. They weren't DH bikes, these were all referring to bikes with 120 or 140mm fork. Will it really make that much difference to go down 20 or 40 mm in the fork travel? Enough to make you sell your "beloved" bike.

It sure sounds better than I just bought a new bike and my wife will not let me keep the other one, otherwise no sex for a til it's gone:p You are going to find that out quickly when you are invited on a group ride and they will tell you it's an easy, flowy trail short climbs. When in reality it's a 45min climb to a white knuckle rock garden descend. It just makes us look good.


4) is there some write up somewhere to help understand bike geometry. Like if you do adjust the tube head angle this is the result in handling or feel etc.

There's 3 ways to do that
one-Get shorter or longer fork which can result in steeper head angle(shorter) and increase agility or slacker(longer) increase stability. Since very few of us are bike builder/designer it's best to stay within the recommended range for that bike. It's a balancing game, where something gotta give when you install either extreme end of the travel.

two-put bigger wheel if you have a 26er you can get longer fork and bigger wheel in the front and change the geometry of the ride, same goes with 650b wheel size (27.5") but many 26er forks can accept that wheel size.

three- get the angle headset, that would let you to change the head angle a bit.

5) is there a good podcast that takes about bikes, components, riding technique, maintenance etc. seemed the ones I looked up were really covering racing events etc.

Yes but not too current, there's only so many things to talk about before repeating yourself. This is not golf where they can shamelessly keep teaching the same 20 fundamentals to you over and over again. At some point it would turn into just rides report and product reviews.


Okay, all for now. Thanks in advance.
Well that's that.:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I was thinking that the X9 were the middle guys because I only read about the X7, X9 and XX and the XO. I guess I was thinking that those are the only real players.

Wow, five years seems like a pretty short life span. Let me ask you this, and I know I'm painting with a broad brush here so excuse me for that. So, the guys that are selling used bikes that are 8-9 or over ten years old a pulling a fast one? Are these bikes more than likely going to have major structural or component issues?

Last bike ride was last weekend. I live 30 min away from a decent trail. Been trying to go once or twice a month if I can. FYI, I've been riding a cheap mongoose FS and Schwinn HT for several years. Finally bought a used Santa Cruz Superlight, tubeless, X7 components, avid juicy brakes. I had no idea that a bike could be soo much better. It just has me wondering if the grass is greener further up pasture so to speak. And the LBS, is worthless. I live in a pretty small town and they only have two adult sized mountain bikes, both some entry level treks. Not even as good as my SC. To test anything I've got to go to Houston which is a 2.5 hr trip one way. So I'm limited in some respects. I've got to have a pretty good idea what I'm looking for before I make a trip so it's not a waste of time.
 
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