[Novaterra]

Hello,
i own a lyrik ultimate since a few weeks,but something seems to be wrong.
i cant feel any difference in between the full closed settings and/or the full open settings. Not on the parkong lot, nor on a rooty downhill section.
went to winterberg bikepark last week, and did a few runs with hsc and lsc full closed, and used same travel and had the same used travel than the run with all the setting full open. Is there somenone who has the same?.
i dropped the lowers this afternoon, and couldn't even feel a difference on the damper shaft(something what is very noticable with an fox fit4 fork)

 

[294037]

How much do you weigh? The new valving is even softer than charger 2 and the adjusters don't make a huge change so it will be difficult to tell in some situations, especially by hand or in the parking lot

 

[Jesse Hill]

How much do you weigh? The new valving is even softer than charger 2 and the adjusters don't make a huge change so it will be difficult to tell in some situations, especially by hand or in the parking lot

Since you were one of first to have a 2.1 apart did you get dyno results? We have data of the 2 vs the hc97 but no results for how the 2.1 compares to the 2. Darren seems to feel it's only a minor tweak yet RS in articles seems to feel it's a substantial change in damper vs the 2. Interested in it's rebound effect as well since they put a bit of R&D time to redesign it so they must have felt there were short comings in the original otherwise it would be a waste of costs (typically bigger companies don't spend money on things unless they have to is my experience).

 

[294037]

Since you were one of first to have a 2.1 apart did you get dyno results? We have data of the 2 vs the hc97 but no results for how the 2.1 compares to the 2. Darren seems to feel it's only a minor tweak yet RS in articles seems to feel it's a substantial change in damper vs the 2. Interested in it's rebound effect as well since they put a bit of R&D time to redesign it so they must have felt there were short comings in the original otherwise it would be a waste of costs (typically bigger companies don't spend money on things unless they have to is my experience).

Yeah I've done a bunch of tests on it and yes its only a very minor tweak.......The only thing from RS's comments that would be noticeable is that the Hardest HSC setting is the same as the old middle setting (which is the same as an RCT3 fork)

Rebound curve has barely changed.....for example I expect you would maybe run the new damper 1 click slower than the old....if that

The overall friction reduction changes will probably be a bigger difference

 

[Dougal]

Hello,
i own a lyrik ultimate since a few weeks,but something seems to be wrong.
i cant feel any difference in between the full closed settings and/or the full open settings. Not on the parkong lot, nor on a rooty downhill section.
went to winterberg bikepark last week, and did a few runs with hsc and lsc full closed, and used same travel and had the same used travel than the run with all the setting full open. Is there somenone who has the same?.
i dropped the lowers this afternoon, and couldn't even feel a difference on the damper shaft(something what is very noticable with an fox fit4 fork)

You can't feel any difference because the LSC dial doesn't make any difference. It doesn't even touch the sides internally.

HSC is also too soft for hard riders. I don't know what they were thinking.

 

[Jesse Hill]

Yeah I've done a bunch of tests on it and yes its only a very minor tweak.......The only thing from RS's comments that would be noticeable is that the Hardest HSC setting is the same as the old middle setting (which is the same as an RCT3 fork)

Rebound curve has barely changed.....for example I expect you would maybe run the new damper 1 click slower than the old....if that

The overall friction reduction changes will probably be a bigger difference

Hmm, we'll the friction is mostly going to be the seal head (I've felt the 2.1 by hand and that is noticeable) and it looks like that will be purchasable on its own, the new piston won't though. The reduction is HSC is probably the right direction since almost everyone, myself included runs 0 but I'm curious as to the fork riding higher as it's claimed. That would imply the LSC actually works now. Really wish someone would get a test done of the 2.1 vs HC97, was hoping to come to a decision by wed so I could have one or the other by this weekend.

 

[Novaterra]

I weigh about 215 ready to go. Maybe try a hc97 or something else to get little more support

 

[294037]

I weigh about 215 ready to go. Maybe try a hc97 or something else to get little more support

Ok, yeah in that case all the HS settings are too soft for you which is why they will feel the same. You can retune the damper so you at least have appropriate high speed compression, and change to heavier oil for a small amount of extra low speed but fundamentally that damper won't ever create a huge amount of low speed compression for you.

HC97 will definitely give you much more useable damping

 

[cxfahrer]

Ok, yeah in that case all the HS settings are too soft for you which is why they will feel the same. You can retune the damper so you at least have appropriate high speed compression, and change to heavier oil for a small amount of extra low speed but fundamentally that damper won't ever create a huge amount of low speed compression for you.

HC97 will definitely give you much more useable damping

Interesting!
On the old Charger2 RC the damping is too harsh, even for my 200lbs - now on the new one it is too soft?
Why that?
Is the new oil that much thinner?

HC97 might be the solution.

 

[294037]

Hmm, we'll the friction is mostly going to be the seal head (I've felt the 2.1 by hand and that is noticeable) and it looks like that will be purchasable on its own, the new piston won't though. The reduction is HSC is probably the right direction since almost everyone, myself included runs 0 but I'm curious as to the fork riding higher as it's claimed. That would imply the LSC actually works now. Really wish someone would get a test done of the 2.1 vs HC97, was hoping to come to a decision by wed so I could have one or the other by this weekend.

If you already have a charger 2 fork and want an upgrade I would go the HC97.

There's a reason it's called 2.1 and not charger 3, I think that's rockshox admitting it isn't a huge leap in performance

 

[294037]

Interesting!
On the old Charger2 RC the damping is too harsh, even for my 200lbs - now on the new one it is too soft?
Why that?
Is the new oil that much thinner?

HC97 might be the solution.

Most people assume a harsh fork is "overdamped" when it really has too little damping (yes, really) or something else entirely. The RC2 2.1 in its hardest setting has the same damping as a charger 2 RC

The new oil isn't to make it softer, it's almost identical in viscosity. They claim other reasons like noise and friction

 

[Jesse Hill]

If you already have a charger 2 fork and want an upgrade I would go the HC97.

There's a reason it's called 2.1 and not charger 3, I think that's rockshox admitting it isn't a huge leap in performance

I think that's simply because they didn't change the exterior design so it's not a complete ground up design change but according to RS lead he feels this is the biggest change they've made in 3-4 years regarding ride feel.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/2...es-Products-Charger-2-1-Damper-Update-an,2657

 

[Dougal]

Interesting!
On the old Charger2 RC the damping is too harsh, even for my 200lbs - now on the new one it is too soft?
Why that?
Is the new oil that much thinner?

HC97 might be the solution.

They managed to create a damper that felt harsh but had not much support. The RC2 have less support with a flat shim stack where the RC was preloaded to provide platform.

It can be fixed with a few modifications and a retune.

 

[coolatt]

I started a thread a few weeks ago about a 2.1 RC2 I bought as an upgrade for my Pike. I'm on my second damper as the first one fell apart on it's maiden voyage.
Here are a few things I've noticed....compared to a C1 RC in the same fork

I can feel a noticeable difference with both compression knobs.
I use significantly less travel (at least 10mm less) at the same air pressure. This is with both compression adjustments at minimum.
I'm experiencing less small bump compliance even with the LSC at minimum.
The HS rebound does not seem to be slow enough. Even with the rebound knob maxed out, the mid and deep stroke rebound is quite fast. This is not the same as as Pike C1 I have or a Lyrik C2 RC2 I tested in a shop, both had a noticeable slowdown throughout the range of travel, this one seems to be only affected at the top of the stroke.

To me, the damper has a firmer LSC, similar if not a bit softer HSC (adjustable at least) and way less rebound damping.

All in I'm not too happy with it so far

 

[One Pivot]

Most people assume a harsh fork is "overdamped" when it really has too little damping (yes, really) or something else entirely. The RC2 2.1 in its hardest setting has the same damping as a charger 2 RC

The new oil isn't to make it softer, it's almost identical in viscosity. They claim other reasons like noise and friction

You keep saying that, but so so so many people have softened up rc dampers to fix them at this point. We absolutely know they were over damped!

 

[294037]

You keep saying that, but so so so many people have softened up rc dampers to fix them at this point. We absolutely know they were over damped!

By that logic my personal charger rc with a firmer tune would be completely unrideable! Has anyone here ever tested a firmer tune at least for experiments sake? Bear in mind too much preload and "overdamped" arent necessarily the same thing

The other "consensus" is that the rc2 is way too soft in all settings, yet it's the same as an rc or rct3! ?

I'll stick with my real world measurements thank you ??