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Stupid question but what do these curves say about initially setting up a bike, sag wise. That is, should a bike with a straight falling rate be set up differently sag wise than a bike with a straight rising rate? And does it say something about the type of shock to use (Air or coil)?
 

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anand said:
Stupid question but what do these curves say about initially setting up a bike, sag wise. That is, should a bike with a straight falling rate be set up differently sag wise than a bike with a straight rising rate? And does it say something about the type of shock to use (Air or coil)?
Take a look about half way down this page, just below the calculator. It talks about your concerns. http://www.theride.ca/guru/spring-calc.htm
 

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.Danno. said:
Take a look about half way down this page, just below the calculator. It talks about your concerns. http://www.theride.ca/guru/spring-calc.htm
Thanks, makes sense for the straight rates, but what would you do for a bike like that KHS shown about the kind of starts with a falling rate then goes back to a rising rate?

Man, makes you realize that suspension design is more complicated then just Horst-link, VPP, single pivot or whatever else!
 

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anand said:
Thanks, makes sense for the straight rates, but what would you do for a bike like that KHS shown about the kind of starts with a falling rate then goes back to a rising rate?

Man, makes you realize that suspension design is more complicated then just Horst-link, VPP, single pivot or whatever else!
Those KHS rates are basically flat, there's almost no variation. Maybe PsyCro could put one of those on the same graph as a Nomad. You'd see a big contrast.
 

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.Danno. said:
Those KHS rates are basically flat, there's almost no variation. Maybe PsyCro could put one of those on the same graph as a Nomad. You'd see a big contrast.

Yup, sorry did not look at the y-axis. Does not change more than a few %.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
.Danno. said:
Those KHS rates are basically flat, there's almost no variation. Maybe PsyCro could put one of those on the same graph as a Nomad. You'd see a big contrast.

Yep... heres one for comparison.. some 'real' variations. Make sure to look at the numbers anand, not just the curves.
 

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PsyCro said:
Yep... heres one for comparison.. some 'real' variations. Make sure to look at the numbers anand, not just the curves.
Thanks, but I am a sucker for curves, just ask my wife!

But seriously, the nomad must have some great bottom our protection?

Also, have any idea what a Titus Motolite looks like?
 

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PsyCro said:
Yep... heres one for comparison.. some 'real' variations. Make sure to look at the numbers anand, not just the curves.
I have been mis-informed then. All the time I owned the KHS FR2000 I tuned it as if it were a falling rate design at the 6 inch mode and tuned my shock with that in mind. The explains the reason why when I had the volume of the 6 way wound up to 50% from open and the high speed compression turned 75% from open, the rear suspension spiked alot. I remember the last 8 months I owned it, I finally settled at 20% volume from open, the low speed compression at 20% from open and the high speed compression fully open.

This means then that the bike would not need a shock that provides too much progression. That explains why my buddies bike with the Romic felt so much better than mine with the Swinger 6 way (due to SPV set at 70 psi), even if whe both had the same 66rc2x fork at front.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
nickgto said:
I have been mis-informed then. All the time I owned the KHS FR2000 I tuned it as if it were a falling rate design at the 6 inch mode and tuned my shock with that in mind. The explains the reason why when I had the volume of the 6 way wound up to 50% from open and the high speed compression turned 75% from open, the rear suspension spiked alot. I remember the last 8 months I owned it, I finally settled at 20% volume from open, the low speed compression at 20% from open and the high speed compression fully open.

This means then that the bike would not need a shock that provides too much progression. That explains why my buddies bike with the Romic felt so much better than mine with the Swinger 6 way (due to SPV set at 70 psi), even if whe both had the same 66rc2x fork at front.
If you only knew then...
I think the most important thing is to tune by feel anyhow, regardless of design. Get it how you like it, that usually takes some trial and error anyways.



anand said:
Thanks, but I am a sucker for curves, just ask my wife!

But seriously, the nomad must have some great bottom our protection?

Also, have any idea what a Titus Motolite looks like?
Bottom out isnt really a problem.. a non-existent mid-stroke is. People regularly complain about blowing through the mid-stroke on the Nomad. But even that can be solved with proper tuning, which the VPP design is usually notoriuos for, gotta have exact sag for the design, compression settings etc etc..
 

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PsyCro said:
If you only knew then...
I think the most important thing is to tune by feel anyhow, regardless of design. Get it how you like it, that usually takes some trial and error anyways.





Bottom out isnt really a problem.. a non-existent mid-stroke is. People regularly complain about blowing through the mid-stroke on the Nomad. But even that can be solved with proper tuning, which the VPP design is usually notoriuos for, gotta have exact sag for the design, compression settings etc etc..
Very true if I only knew then. Graphs like this aid alot in tuning because you have an idea when the bike would need what type of compression the most, and if i had this graph before, I would have had more enjoyable rides. Blowing thru midstroke could be aided with adequate low speed compression. In the Nomad's case for example, It starts at a falling rate and the beginning till about half of it's travel; I would run 50-60% low speed compression but would back off on the high speed compression to avoid spiking.
 

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nickgto said:
Very true if I only knew then. Graphs like this aid alot in tuning because you have an idea when the bike would need what type of compression the most, and if i had this graph before, I would have had more enjoyable rides. Blowing thru midstroke could be aided with adequate low speed compression. In the Nomad's case for example, It starts at a falling rate and the beginning till about half of it's travel; I would run 50-60% low speed compression but would back off on the high speed compression to avoid spiking.
That Nomad graph also shows why the DHX air works so horribly on that bike. The DHX air is well known to have a weak mid-stroke spring, and the Nomad leverage ratio peaks up mid stroke. Bad combination.
 

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.Danno. said:
That Nomad graph also shows why the DHX air works so horribly on that bike. The DHX air is well known to have a weak mid-stroke spring, and the Nomad leverage ratio peaks up mid stroke. Bad combination.

Wouldnt that actually be a good combination?..at least in theory

edit..sorry...I missread your post, looking at the graph I understand your point
 
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