[Poncharelli]

Hey all,

Did my first official expert class race this past Saturday and I'd have to say things were a little different:

1. There wasn't the big blast off from the start line like sport class. Smaller group (10 riders instead of 30-40) so I guess jumping into the singletrack first, really isn't that important. This course had a long jeep road climb after the first bit of singletrack, so there is were things got truly sorted out.
2. Wow!! So much space. Nice not to have to worry about being surrounded by dozens and dozens of people. In the past when I raced sport 30-39, we had to try to get around a lot of sport 20-29 guys. In this case in the MensX 40+, the Mens X 30-39 guys were gone!! No catching them.
3. That extra lap really changes how you address attacks. In sport class you have to attack every little space, fighting for position, because it's crowded. In this expert race, it seemed to be all about who had the biggest steady engine. Any unneccesary attack that is made in the first lap, will be paid for by the third.
4. Food planning is different. Had to take more gel, and water bottle support is nice. I wouldn't want to carry all the water for this race on my back.

Anyways, I got a 4th place in MensX 40+. Helps to be the youngest guy in the group. In the mensX 30-39 I would have been in the 60th percentile down.

So my pacing method would be: go hard from the beginning, see how you stand after the first lap, then stay strong and hold your position the second lap, and then give it absolutely everything you have for the final lap. I actually passed the 4th place guy at the very end to get fourth. From the get go, he was obviously faster than me; but he had no gas for the finishing sprint.

What's your method of pacing??

 

[tomimcmillar]

"I don't want to win unless I know I've done my best, and the only way I know how to do that is to run out front, flat out until I have nothing left. Winning any other way is chicken-****. " ---Steve Prefontaine

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[glenzx]

Sweet!

Nice work Ponch - and interesting thread. Bigger expert field size and you'd have the same tendencies you saw in Sport and noted here.... where you need your nutrition dialed, your big engine, AND the ability to attack, chase, attack, recover, attack, and generally go balls-to-the-wall from the word GO. If you felt like the start was mellow - you're in better shape than you think, perhaps!

Every expert race I've done - from near DFL's to 1st's, I have felt I was pinned all the way. The difference was nutrition and smarts, and the once-in-a-while convergence of luck, fitness, and some well planned tactics.

Key is being able to PUNCH it from the start, and be strong enough at tempo to stay ahead - and smart enough to eat and drink correctly, it seems. Also - I always get a boost when I've done that - been at or near the front, and a fellow racer catches me. I get on HIS wheel, eat/drink/re-evaluate, and then re-attack - usually with enough pow to "finish him off" as he's likely to have expended the last fumes he had left in the tank passing ME. This has happened 3 or 4 times (of 50+ races) and I always manage to stay out after those encounters. 'Course, I've been that guy too .

Best case is to floor it from the start and stay so far ahead no one can "get you in their sights". It's as much a physical victory/battle as a mental one then...

 

[fsrftc]

great job on 4th place! I agree with tomimcmillar, I race at my LT the entire race and then push it when I need it

 

[The SS Boz]

Grats on the race Ponch!

What's your method of pacing??

Keep first place guy in sight as long as humanly possible about sums it up...unless that happens to be me ...Then play damage control.

(Not much different than racing any other category other than I have to add at least 2mph to my avg speed these days over sport... )

 

[merlin]

thats a great result for you first expert race! A lot of it for depends on how long the race is. At Sea Otter the race is about 3 hours. The first time I sis it I blew up after the first lap. Next year I went hard but not balls out in lap 1 then gave it all I had for the 2nd lap and passed a ton of blown up riders. If the race is only 1.5 hours, go for it! It's a Drag race

 

[Tracerboy]

"I don't want to win unless I know I've done my best, and the only way I know how to do that is to run out front, flat out until I have nothing left. Winning any other way is chicken-****. " ---Steve Prefontaine

Really losing any other way is chicken****. If you win, you win...who cares? The mistake is when you lose and still leave something (extra reserves) in you.

I did that at least once last year. Learning to properly pace yourself is tough in expert. But I think that 95% of all racers go out too hard - beginner, sport, expert, whatever.

Guys go out like maniacs in 24 hour races! 24 Hour races! (Thats one race you don't have to worry about not leaving everything out there - you will, one way or another.) I raced 24-hour duo the last two years and my team is always in close to last over the first few hours and we ended up in 2nd both years. Guys turn insanely fast laps early then completely break down at night...I mean they dont even finish.

I blew up in the first few races of the year last year (but it was because I was out of shape) then I had a fear of blowing-up, even by mid-summer, when I was in shape. I got the balance right in a few races but I defintely got it wrong in a few too.

 

[Some Guy]

go hard from the beginning, see how you stand after the first lap, then stay strong and hold your position the second lap, and then give it absolutely everything you have for the final lap.

Best case is to floor it from the start and stay so far ahead no one can "get you in their sights". It's as much a physical victory/battle as a mental one then...

I've been racing Expert this season (six races so far) and what has worked best for me seems to be staying with the leaders at the start of the race, and then picking up the pace on the second last lap before storming home on the last. Not losing sight of the leader(s) is key, as if you do it can be difficult to catch up again.

From the three races where I tried to leave the field behind off the line I finished with two DNFs - one due to a double flat after a crash and the other due to me expiring in 42 degree heat (that's 107F). In the third I lead for the first 4&1/2 laps before being passed and relegated to 2nd. My two wins have both come from steady riding near front of the pack before an increase in pace towards the end of the race.

 

[crosser]

I think it depends very much on the course. If the single track begins soon after the start, you really have no choice but to punch it and attempt to deal with the consequences.

On the other hand one of the most mellow starts I can remember was at Australian nationals this year, which began with a 160 metre climb. It would have been very misguided to try and break away at the start. The openess of the course meant that any leader could be seen in the distance, which made it very hard to get away. The best strategy in this case was to find the fastest group you could and slowly wear each other down.

In either case you should leave it all out there. That's what XC is all about.

One thing I have learned is that if you end up behind someone on singletrack it pays to pass them as soon as is safely possible. It's often amazing how much of a gap you can open up once you're on your own with a clear view of the track ahead. You don't even realise you're being held up sometimes.

 

[Tracerboy]

One thing I have learned is that if you end up behind someone on singletrack it pays to pass them as soon as is safely possible. It's often amazing how much of a gap you can open up once you're on your own with a clear view of the track ahead. You don't even realise you're being held up sometimes.

True. Most times, if you caught soemone, you're faster. As everybody is pretty comptetent in expert, so sometimes it feels as though you are going fast behind someone but they are actually holding you up. It can make a big difference.

 

[Poncharelli]

Thanks for the advice guys!!

I'll have to not give up next time. When the top three guys surged, I went ahead and suffered for a while and then became afraid of the unknown. Never did a three lap race before. I took the suffering for a while and thought, "damn, this is still the first lap"!!

Then I backed off and hoped that their endurance wasn't as good. Well, I guess that wasn't the case because I never saw any of them again.

But you guys convinced me it's better to be able to see the leader in order to have a better incentive to chase. Especially helps for the downhill. I was in "no-man's land" the second lap and then a guy in my class caught me at the beginning of the 3rd lap, which definitely pushed me because I had no idea how he downhilled; I was pretty much in panic mode. So I tried to increase the gap as much as possible before each downhill (they're were only really two downhills per lap; 1400 feet climbing total per lap). He pushed me so hard I caught the next guy.

It wasn't a long race; everyone came in 1:40 - 1:52; nice spread for ten people. First race of the series and we're barely out of February in Utah, so most of us didn't have a ton of miles on our legs, except for maybe the guy who came up from Vegas.

Next race is April 7th and I'll try to stay with those guys. It's a longer flatter race, 33 miles with 2:15-2:30 for last year's Men's X 40+. Gotta plan the gel and water, and drafting will be critical, so gotta stay with the front guys at all costs.

Thanks!!

 

[roaddog]

Your post sort of helps us 1st timer expert riders out a bit as what to expect. My first expert oldster class will be in May. I am better at marathon races events, but had to learn to giv'er a bit more in the sport class. That extra lap will make a difference in pacing.

 

[goat]

I raced my first exoert race last weekand also. My coach told me that I need to start strong and then the field levels out. After my first race I tended to disagree with him, and agree with your stance more so. Anyway, interesting thread.

GOAT

 

[smithy]

Well i've got my first Expert/Elite race on the 1st of April. I sure hope the starts are like your first race was. Last year in Sport it was hell for leather from the start. My tactics will be to follow the front guys and see if I can hold on. I can feel the pain already....

 

[KMan]

Here is my $0.02 worth

What I noticed works better for me - not that I race much anymore, but I like to keep a brisk pace at the start. I don't mind if I drop back a bit (not to the rear though) and pace myself until the first climb. Once there is were I pick up my pace. Often most other riders have blown their wad at the start and getting to the climb and once there don't have enought to keep the tempo up the climb. No out of the saddle sprinting up the climb, just steady but faster and oftem I can drop a dozen riders on one climb. Heep the tempo across the top and a bit more and then back down the pace to recover until the next climb.

I am not a great climber by anymeans, but this is where I focus my race strategy - demoralizing others on the climbs.

KMan
www.MLKimages.com

Hey all,

Did my first official expert class race this past Saturday and I'd have to say things were a little different:

1. There wasn't the big blast off from the start line like sport class. Smaller group (10 riders instead of 30-40) so I guess jumping into the singletrack first, really isn't that important. This course had a long jeep road climb after the first bit of singletrack, so there is were things got truly sorted out.
2. Wow!! So much space. Nice not to have to worry about being surrounded by dozens and dozens of people. In the past when I raced sport 30-39, we had to try to get around a lot of sport 20-29 guys. In this case in the MensX 40+, the Mens X 30-39 guys were gone!! No catching them.
3. That extra lap really changes how you address attacks. In sport class you have to attack every little space, fighting for position, because it's crowded. In this expert race, it seemed to be all about who had the biggest steady engine. Any unneccesary attack that is made in the first lap, will be paid for by the third.
4. Food planning is different. Had to take more gel, and water bottle support is nice. I wouldn't want to carry all the water for this race on my back.

Anyways, I got a 4th place in MensX 40+. Helps to be the youngest guy in the group. In the mensX 30-39 I would have been in the 60th percentile down.

So my pacing method would be: go hard from the beginning, see how you stand after the first lap, then stay strong and hold your position the second lap, and then give it absolutely everything you have for the final lap. I actually passed the 4th place guy at the very end to get fourth. From the get go, he was obviously faster than me; but he had no gas for the finishing sprint.

What's your method of pacing??

 

[The SS Boz]

but this is where I focus my race strategy - demoralizing others on the climbs.

Preach on brotha! ....Turning the screws on the climbs is fun :thumbsup:

 

[Poncharelli]

"I don't want to win unless I know I've done my best, and the only way I know how to do that is to run out front, flat out until I have nothing left. Winning any other way is chicken-****. " ---Steve Prefontaine

That pretty much sums it up.

You know, I saw his life story movie on HBO last year. The general message I got from his racing career was that he refused to draft, therefore giving him less than expected success at the world class level.

he had the horsepower, just wasn't good at playing the game at the world class level.

There are just too many games/tactics played in cycling (especially road/crit racing) for me to appreciate that mind set. For me, this mind set is maybe a little better:

"RACE HARD, RACE SMART" - Poncharelli

 

[glenzx]

Preach on brotha! ....Turning the screws on the climbs is fun :thumbsup:

ESPECIALLY on hard, technical climbs.... dirt road climbs - pfft. Rocky, Loose, Stair-Steppy nasty climbs? Yeah! That's where I like to stomp it. Amazing how much time can be made up on techy climbs...

My motto? Leave every ounce of heart & soul (and energy) on course.

 

[tomimcmillar]

You know, I saw his life story movie on HBO last year. The general message I got from his racing career was that he refused to draft, therefore giving him less than expected success at the world class level.

he had the horsepower, just wasn't good at playing the game at the world class level.

There are just too many games/tactics played in cycling (especially road/crit racing) for me to appreciate that mind set. For me, this mind set is maybe a little better:

"RACE HARD, RACE SMART" - Poncharelli

I see that appraoch as one that refuses to play games, it's game on from the very first step.

ie: We're here to race, so let's effin race; shoulder to shoulder, toe to toe, mano a mano, me vs. you vs. the course. The race starts from the gun, from the word go. If you're gonna ride my draft to the finish line and then come around in the last 100m for the 'win,' good for you, but it earns you absolutely no respect in my book.

That's how I interpret the above quote, and it's also how I happen to approach events that I know I can be a contender in. Of course, this isn't always for the best in all situations, but I know that I'm gonna suffer alllll day long, so I'll do my damndedest to make sure everybody else is also feeling the hurt. If you're gonna beat me, you're gonna earn it, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't......

I refuse to look over my shoulder until I'm at least half an hour into an event, try to grab the hole shot and don't look back, head down, the race is always out in front of you, not behind. Then I'll sit up a bit and take a quick inventory, either check to see who's still around or try to figure out how far back I might be. Ride a hard tempo thru the middle of the event to 'recover', then empty the tank on the way to the finish and hope I can hold on to whatever placing I have. If you don't need help getting off your bike in the finish chute, then you still have something left and coulda gone a bit harder. I'll add that it's rare that I race a short XC race these days, I hate racing in circles, so I've focused on marathon style for the last 5 or so years, if the race is projected 2-2.5 hours in length, just pin it the whole time.

Of course, road racing is a whole different kettle of fish......

 

[ashwinearl]

A slightly different perspective

This is a slightly different perspective and is counter to the 'leave it all on the course' and 'stay with the leaders...then pick it up the 2nd lap...' discussions.

For those of us in that middle ground between upper sport and low-mid level-ex I think that trying to stay with the leaders off the start is asking for trouble. From experience, the best races I've had have been to forget about the leaders and focus on my own pace.

There's a fine line between max sustainable pace and burning all your matches which can just leads to pinballing off trees and going backwards.

The 'less is more' philosophy seems to lead to faster times for me. Consequently, my best races result in finishing with that feeling that I could go a little more. This is very counter to the standard image of 'giving it all' . Invariably, giving it all lead to blowing up, cramping and never really recovering.

Obviously, I won't be winning any races until the time comes when my racing pace increases and my recovery time between hard efforts decreases. However, this strategy is resulting in better overall times/finishes. For 'training' races though going balls out and exploding is a great strategy.