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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ya. Seat tube angle. If your trails aren't steep or chunky you will be fine on a following. If you ride anything kinda steep or go to bike parks or anything like that the Offering is a much better option.
is the offering a enduro bike? I test ride the following recently and found its suspension to be the same as Pivot mach 5.7.

does Delta suspension act the same way as dw-link?
 

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http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2018/02/pivot-cycles-55-carbon-2018.html?m=1

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2018/03/evil-following-mb-2018.html?m=1

They are pretty different. They're both pretty good. The biggest difference is the dw bikes are pretty linear and the delta bikes are progressive. The dw also has a bit more anti squat built it.

What that means is the dw bikes are probably a little better at pedaling efficiently, but can not accommodate a coil shock. The delta link bikes have a very unique forces curve where they feel efficient at sag, plush in the middle and ramp up for the last 1/3 of travel.

I've owned a Mach 6 and a wreckoning. They're very different bikes so not a good comparison. I like the way delta feels a lot more. If you have the money get an offering and don't look back.
 

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It will be interesting to see how the pendulum swings with respect to geometry....

I find the Offering to be one of the best pedaling Evil bikes that I have ridden. A good bit of this is geometry. I am 5' 8ish on a medium, and the longer geometry in the cockpit feels great and the weight distribution is like cheating on certain climbs. I really enjoyed the comfort of the longer bike and the confidence it inspires on certain sections. I have been re-thinking the sizing as of lately. I did a recent bike trip and I usually excel at technical descents and I wasn't as comfortable with the longer geometry in these scenarios.

Bikemag review - says the Offering is a better Following. However, there are folks that have tried Offering only to stay with their Following (again geometry based).

There is no silver bullet, you just have to go try if you can or try to decipher the tea leaves within the MTBR posts.

Regardless both bikes are awesome!!
 

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You need suspension to be soft off the top and firm at the bottom, so that it absorbs small bumps and supports you on bigger hits. It’s all about balance. The leverage ratio of evil bike frames are progressive, the spring rate of an air spring is also progressive so the net outcome is more progressive than needed. The extra support might be nice for really big hits, but at the cost of traction (compliance). Matching a linear spring, aka a coil shock, to the progressive frame provides a good balance. In addition to that air springs have additional seals that create stiction (notchy feeling suspension), so a coil spring will move more easily both off the top and towards the end of the stroke. Imagine you’re blasting through a rock garden with a g-out turn at the bottom, you air spring might be packed down and basically not moving by the time you get to the turn, so you’ll loose traction. A coil spring will remain active deep in the stroke and provide supple traction through the g-out turn. I’d 100% recommend a coil shock on any progressive leverage rate bike. You don’t need to buy the crazy pricey Push shock. But it is a good idea to have your shock tuned for your weight, bike, riding style and terrain. I have a very inexpensive DH shock (RS kage) on my wreckoning that was tuned by Diaz Suspension Designs. It only cost me $350 total and it is absolutely amazing, the stock air shock feels like a harsh wooden damper by comparison. On my new bike I have the new Marzocchi Bomber CR ($250, it’s old DH tech with modern metric sizes) and had Craig at avalanche tune it ($300). It’s even better than the one on my wreck and i bet very close to the 11-6 in performance (they share the same size piston and porting design). The advantage of the 11-6 is there are two independent circuits, so you can have two setups in one, but I don’t think it’s necessary or worth the cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You need suspension to be soft off the top and firm at the bottom, so that it absorbs small bumps and supports you on bigger hits. It's all about balance. The leverage ratio of evil bike frames are progressive, the spring rate of an air spring is also progressive so the net outcome is more progressive than needed. The extra support might be nice for really big hits, but at the cost of traction (compliance). Matching a linear spring, aka a coil shock, to the progressive frame provides a good balance. In addition to that air springs have additional seals that create stiction (notchy feeling suspension), so a coil spring will move more easily both off the top and towards the end of the stroke. Imagine you're blasting through a rock garden with a g-out turn at the bottom, you air spring might be packed down and basically not moving by the time you get to the turn, so you'll loose traction. A coil spring will remain active deep in the stroke and provide supple traction through the g-out turn. I'd 100% recommend a coil shock on any progressive leverage rate bike. You don't need to buy the crazy pricey Push shock. But it is a good idea to have your shock tuned for your weight, bike, riding style and terrain. I have a very inexpensive DH shock (RS kage) on my wreckoning that was tuned by Diaz Suspension Designs. It only cost me $350 total and it is absolutely amazing, the stock air shock feels like a harsh wooden damper by comparison. On my new bike I have the new Marzocchi Bomber CR ($250, it's old DH tech with modern metric sizes) and had Craig at avalanche tune it ($300). It's even better than the one on my wreck and i bet very close to the 11-6 in performance (they share the same size piston and porting design). The advantage of the 11-6 is there are two independent circuits, so you can have two setups in one, but I don't think it's necessary or worth the cost.
Thanks for the explanation

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How well does the push coil shock perform on evil bike?

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Putting in my 2 cents. I have a Push on the Offering. It feels great over small bumps and chatter. It still pedals very well, even with the "downhill" settings. It's also still offers plenty of support to push off of when needed. I've never had a harsh bottom out either. Besides the added weight, there's no reason for me to go back to an air shock on it. It would be a different case if the frame was linear.
 

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Why do you think evil is progressive and dwlink linear?
I can't differentiate between the two suspension.

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Check out the links I posted earlier. They're an analysis of the following and the Mach 5.5, couldnt find the offering and Mach 5.7, but I think they're similar. The Mach 5.5 has a leverage delta of 0.5 the following is 0.65 and the wreckoning is 0.8. By definition an LR delta of <0.5 is linear, 0.5-1.0 is progressive and >1.0 is super progressive.

Pilot themselves say coil shocks don't work on their frames because of the linear linkage issue.
 

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Ya. Seat tube angle. If your trails aren't steep or chunky you will be fine on a following. If you ride anything kinda steep or go to bike parks or anything like that the Offering is a much better option.
This is what I'm wondering..... I'm on a FMB and it's generally good for what I ride, but at times the travel does feel undergunned...... I have a bigger bike for bike parks (which I rarely ride nowadays) but for more trail focused riding I'm wondering if the upgrade to an offering is worth it..... :-S
 

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[What that means is the dw bikes are probably a little better at pedaling efficiently, but can not accommodate a coil shock. The delta link bikes have a very unique forces curve where they feel efficient at sag, plush in the middle and ramp up for the last 1/3 of travel.
I've had coils on both a Turner RFX and 5spot. It really depends on the iteration of the DW-link being licensed into the design. Not sure about Pivot but it was the leverage rate on the Ibis HD3 that PUSH couldn't get their 11-6 to play nice. And then the HD4 and Ripmo.
 

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Should have said DW bikes can not easily accommodate coils. I'm sure yours were very progressively tuned, which is hard to find off the self.
Maybe so, I'm not sure exactly what Push does with the valving but I do know that both had a very light compression tune. But yeah, generally dW-link bikes are designed around the progressive upramp of an air shock. Wanting to run a coil is one reason I went with an Offering rather than a Ripmo on my next bike.
 

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Have you spent time on both the Ripmo and Offering?
I have. My Offering feels better on the DH. The Ripmo climbs a bit better. I'm also weirdly between sizes on the Ripmo. And with a long inseam, the ST extension is stupid long on a medium.

Somebody asked if the "Offering is an enduro bike". Semantics aside, the offering can be quite different depending how you have it setup. Mine has a 160mm fork, -1 angleset and stout wheels and tires. At this point, it doesn't give up much to the Wreckoning. It's absolutely an "enduro bike" and a much burlier one than many.

Offering is by far the best climber of all the evils i've had as well (Following MB, insurgent, wrecker & offering).
 
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