[mookamatook]

Have a Santacruz Tallboy v4 C S kit and I was feeling a bit underbiked last year. Or more so that I wanted more squish and travel for about 50% of my rides. I’m in MN and ride moderate trails that the tallboy is perfect for and then I go up to Duluth and west to a bunch of spots that I want something with more travel but can do 30-40mile days on.

These are the 3 I’ve narrowed it down to.

evil offering v2 gx kit.
Evil Bikes USA
Seems like it will pedal fairly well with delta link and 140 travel. Slightly heavier than the other two but that may translate to more stable/solid feeling in rough stuff. Super boost rear axle will make replacement wheels or parts a bit harder but again more rigid. Short chain stays and relatively long reach should make it stable but still easy to get the front end up off the ground. Love the aesthetic and the frame shape. Not as nice of a brake, wheel, and drivetrain spec as the other two. Also 300$ more expensive

Orbea OCCAM LT M10 build
OCCAM M10 LT
A bit more trail oriented vs the offering v2 in my read/ride of it. 150 out back with a coil is pretty amazing for my style of riding. (Fast, somewhat technical chunk, turns, and popping off stuff along the trail) the component spec is pretty much what I would do if I was building from scratch. Super lightweight. Love the aesthetic as well. (Mulberry purple color) and seems like a super versatile bike. Some people say it’s not super stable and can feel a bit twitchy vs other bikes. Don’t know if that is a problem? I like to pick my lines but just need a bit more cushion than the 120/130 on my tallboy. Seems like the best climber of the bunch. Good price for the spec.

Canyon spectral 29 cf9
Spectral 29 CF 9
The longest travel of the bunch but seems to have less/least overlap with the tallboy while still being super lightweight (Sub29lbs) and people say they pedal well and are fun on the trail. Seems like they did the geo to be the best of all worlds. But maybe that means that it’s just kind of Meh at everything? Love the component spec and build (xo1, carbon everything, nice wheels, etc)

Propain Hugene High End spec build
Bike Configurator • Propain Bikes North America
This bike seems to be the most like my tallboy in terms of suspension design and the kind of riding it’s geared for. But… it’s lighter, nicer component spec and 20mm more travel in back and up front (would only go for 150 factory grip 2 fork) nice wheels, xo1 kit.

comparison of these bikes for the geometry geeks.

let me know your vote!!

 

[mookamatook]

Nada?? Comon folks

 

[eb1888]

Occam or Offering. Both would be fun. The Offering more poppy.

 

[utmtbrider]

I would personally go Offering. The delta suspension design is legit. The occam is great also, it will climb better but wont be as good when turningn it around as the Evil. I wouldn't even touch a canyon. They are known to have pretty poor customer service.

 

[Mountainfrog]

Value wise I'd go with the Propain Hugene. Best of both worlds but you have to pick your poison. I'm not figuring in the Spectral either.

 

[Muggsly]

I am surprised at the reach differences. 15mm is a lot at least in my book so why you went medium across the board is going to affect how you ride that bike. I personally would ride a medium propaine and a small Offering for similar reach numbers. That being said I own a V2 offering and I love that bike and never feel undergunned for what I ride in WestNC. My short list was the Hugene, Switchblade, and Offering. I went offering mostly because I could actually get the frame but also it was number1 for all my boxes. Pedals well and descends even better and it feels lively underneath me and is always up for anything that I can currently do with it. It is definitely a bike that does not limit me or my riding at all.

 

[senorbanana]

Offering

 

[mookamatook]

Occam or Offering. Both would be fun. The Offering more poppy.

I guess the question is does the Occam LT 150mm f/r suspension with the coil, better pedaling efficiency + weight, equal a more stable, fun and versatile all around bike.

I would personally go Offering. The delta suspension design is legit. The occam is great also, it will climb better but wont be as good when turningn it around as the Evil. I wouldn't even touch a canyon. They are known to have pretty poor customer service.

Do you think this is still the same comparison with the Occam LT vs the Occam w/ 140 f/r? I was thinking that as the Occam LT took on a coil shock, it would be better for the rougher chattery and chunky downhills that I seem to find myself on most of the time. That kind of made me think that the up/down characteristics of the Offering vs Occam LT may be more in line with each other. Occam is available immediately...

Value wise I'd go with the Propain Hugene. Best of both worlds but you have to pick your poison. I'm not figuring in the Spectral either.

It is an awesome spec and would be a great bike for just about anything. They are supposed to ship in April. That's a ways out there for me but maybe I just need to wait... How do we think Propain is going to handle the shortage here? Has there been any comments on customer service and warranty? Sounds like Canyon isn't the route to go here

I am surprised at the reach differences. 15mm is a lot at least in my book so why you went medium across the board is going to affect how you ride that bike. I personally would ride a medium propaine and a small Offering for similar reach numbers. That being said I own a V2 offering and I love that bike and never feel undergunned for what I ride in WestNC. My short list was the Hugene, Switchblade, and Offering. I went offering mostly because I could actually get the frame but also it was number1 for all my boxes. Pedals well and descends even better and it feels lively underneath me and is always up for anything that I can currently do with it. It is definitely a bike that does not limit me or my riding at all.

Are you thinking that I should size up or down on one of these? Occam is a Lrg, Propain is a Med, Evil is a Med. I'm probably most interested in being able to pedal 20-50 mile days in all sorts of terrain. Other than feeling the suspension is up to the task I'm throwing at it, I think I'm leaning towards pedaling efficiency and low weight. That seems to draw me towards the Occam more than the Evil but I haven't had a chance to get a test ride in. Evil should show up in 2 months. Were you not under the same impression the looking at that with the Switchblade, Hugene in comparison to Evil? Do you think it pedals close to the other two?

 

[mookamatook]

Others thoughts?? I have a deposit down on both a Evil Offering 2 Med GX Hydra build and an Occam LT Large M10 build. The others are available online but it seems like the 3 this discussion is leaning towards would only add in the Hugene... which also is an awesome bike at an excellent value for what you get. Has anyone ridden all 3?

 

[Mountainfrog]

I guess the question is does the Occam LT 150mm f/r suspension with the coil, better pedaling efficiency + weight, equal a more stable, fun and versatile all around bike.

Do you think this is still the same comparison with the Occam LT vs the Occam w/ 140 f/r? I was thinking that as the Occam LT took on a coil shock, it would be better for the rougher chattery and chunky downhills that I seem to find myself on most of the time. That kind of made me think that the up/down characteristics of the Offering vs Occam LT may be more in line with each other. Occam is available immediately...

It is an awesome spec and would be a great bike for just about anything. They are supposed to ship in April. That's a ways out there for me but maybe I just need to wait... How do we think Propain is going to handle the shortage here? Has there been any comments on customer service and warranty? Sounds like Canyon isn't the route to go here

Are you thinking that I should size up or down on one of these? Occam is a Lrg, Propain is a Med, Evil is a Med. I'm probably most interested in being able to pedal 20-50 mile days in all sorts of terrain. Other than feeling the suspension is up to the task I'm throwing at it, I think I'm leaning towards pedaling efficiency and low weight. That seems to draw me towards the Occam more than the Evil but I haven't had a chance to get a test ride in. Evil should show up in 2 months. Were you not under the same impression the looking at that with the Switchblade, Hugene in comparison to Evil? Do you think it pedals close to the other two?

I was thinking of overall spec, weight, price, and availability. I'd choose the Occam for best climber. I'd choose the Following for best descender. I'd choose the Spectral for none. Best all rounder for long days in the saddle I'd choose Hugene. My choice but if the Occam is available that may be your deciding factor, especially if your riding season is now or around the corner. Then April is too late.

 

[mookamatook]

Good description of the best at each. That's the crux of this decision. All of the trails around here are up and down, lots of chunk descents at moderate speeds and tech climbs with roots and rocks with some sustained climbs for 1000' or so at a time. Do you get something that is good at climbing, descending, or both... I got a bit overwhelmed last year on the Tallboy with some chattery/chunky downhill that just felt harsh on my 5'-10" 175lbs 35 year old body. I want a bit more cushion, good stable and planted feeling on downhills, fast all around, and a good spec so I'm not replacing parts in a couple years. All 3 are very good bikes it seems just some are a little better at one thing vs another.

Occam
Never tried a coil, that seems like it would be great for my style of riding with the mention of chunk and small bump compliance mixed with tech root/rock climbs. Maybe would give something up in long climbs but the bike is so light to start with and the coil is only 770g or something.

Offering
I had a frame last year but decided that the large V1 offering wasn't sorted enough to build it out. I really like the internal cable routing, geometry changes and I think the super boost will only make it more of a trail machine. I just wonder if it's too heavy in comparison to the Occam to make full use of the short chain stays and fun geo it offers. I really do like this bike but haven't had a chance to ride it. It seems like everyone loves it when they have...

Hugene
Seems like the closest to my TB in terms of the feel of the bike with the Pro10 suspension being very similar to the VPP lower link and the geo being pretty slack HTA, fairly steep STA (although I think the geometry numbers I showed were for a 140mm fork instead of the 150mm I'd go for). Seems to be light and ready for all day pedals. Does it suffer in comparison to the other two on descents?

I won't be riding my mountain bike in my home state until around May so I can wait but the real issue is when I go west in Feb/Mar I may want to have this sorted out by then... I'll be riding fat bikes for the winter in MN!

 

[Muggsly]

If you want pedaling I would be looking at the Hugene or the Occam not that the offering is a slouch. Also to answer you other question you should be looking at a large Hugene which will have a 476mm reach. I personally wanted to enjoy descending while still being able to climb decently efficient so I went offering. You might even want to look at the switchblade that thing can climb like a champ with it's DWLink but I don't mean to muddy your waters.

 

[mookamatook]

If you want pedaling I would be looking at the Hugene or the Occam not that the offering is a slouch. Also to answer you other question you should be looking at a large Hugene which will have a 476mm reach. I personally wanted to enjoy descending while still being able to climb decently efficient so I went offering. You might even want to look at the switchblade that thing can climb like a champ with it's DWLink but I don't mean to muddy your waters.

Good feedback! Maybe sizing up on the Hugene will make it a bit more stable in the downhills with more reach and generally a bigger bike? It seems to be one of the best pedaling bikes in this range and with a 150mm up front, it seems like a good fit. I just wonder if delivery times will slip after I put money down on it... unpredictable market right now...

I think the switchblade is out for me. Too expensive for what you get I also considered the SB130 and SC Hightower CC but again, too expensive. I want a really great component spec for around 6200-6500 MSRP and I felt like both the Yeti and SC can't hit that price point with the cost of their frame.

After riding an offering for a while, do you think it's the bike you'll keep or are you looking at other things and wondering?

 

[Muggsly]

After riding an offering for a while, do you think it's the bike you'll keep or are you looking at other things and wondering?

This will be my bike for the foreseeable future and I have almost year on it already. There are a few upgrades I want to try , like coil rear, maybe 160mm front, and carbon hoops, and I still stare at it every time I see it in the garage. I do love it since it is what I wanted, a bike fine for my locals and great for the mountains. I will admit I have never been a strong climber but I love to descend and that is what this bike does better than the others imho.

 

[mookamatook]

I wish this was easier. I'm spoiled I know. Debating over little details with a 6k+ bike is a first world problem. But I don't really want to buy another bike for the foreseeable future and want to get it right this time. Buying and selling bikes is a losing game in my experience...

I keep getting the feedback that the evil is a special bike and nothing feels as good as it. Good up and down and playful all around bike for pretty much anything I'd throw at it. I keep hearing that the Occam is a super fun, light, and efficient bike. Most say that going to a 150 up front is a huge improvement on downhill geo over the M10 (non LT version) and the coil included with the LT version will make downhill chatter/chunk way better than the 140mm DPS factory on the normal M10 Occam.

Am I right in thinking those are the things that make each of these most appealing?

 

[Muggsly]

Honestly most modern bikes are just incredible and there are just little niggles here and there that make them different especially with a given category. I would say go find each of those bikes and ride em and see which one suits you more, although I do know that stock is often an issue.

I honestly think any of the bikes you named will do exactly what you want them to do with room to spare and you will find a lot of people repeating the same cliches. Climbs like a goat and descends like a demon when really you are asking people to eat 2 types of cheese and then decide which one is cheesier.

I know when I was buying my new bike beginning of last year I was pouring over charts , watching every review, and reading every article. And in the end I know I would have been happy to have any of the bikes in my top 3 and would have applauded their ability to X while saying to myself it doesn't really Y as much as the other one but the X & Z make up for it.

If you can ride one go for it and if not grab any of em and enjoy em

 

[Moosedriver]

If you’re open to a bike not on your list, I’d take a look at the Canfield Tilt (if you can find one). From everything I’ve read, they’re supposed to be pretty amazing at both the ups and downs. If you want carbon, Revel bikes licensed their suspension design.

 

[Am92]

Mook, I am in a similar predicament as you, so did you end up making the decision ? What did you get and why? I also keep leaning towards the occam for the type of riding and terrain I mostly ride . Appreciate your feedback!