huh?
Epic?
Is Specialized for real? If anyone from Specialized reads this, please explain why you would try to bully a small company making a product you only wish you were clever enough to produce!
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Specialized gets sue-happy again -- here's the Epic story:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=581818
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=581818
What Nate said
What a sad company. They used to be great, I see Target & Walmart in their future if this is the way they choose to do business.
What a sad company. They used to be great, I see Target & Walmart in their future if this is the way they choose to do business.
I doubt this type of action will ever doom 'em, and I feel foolish even bothering to chime in. I think they'd brush off my email if I sent one, and I'll bet money this thread gets deleted. But the fact is, I've seen two similar instances of this with them, and I decided I won't buy their stuff anymore.Fat Bob said:What Nate said
What a sad company. They used to be great, I see Target & Walmart in their future if this is the way they choose to do business.
The real way to handle it is to express my dissatisfaction with their associated bike shops, and let 'em know why. Let the bike shops lean on their reps, and work it up the chain.
I checked out the Epic Designs guy's website. He makes some nice bags that clearly have nothing to do with the Big ****. In fact, I could probably even stab one on the Xtracycle I'm building, if only to show my support. Unfortunately, it looks as though he's a realist and isn't going to put up a fight. I can't blame him.
We should sue Specialized for removing "Epic" from common usage. We were all using it before their bike came along.
Specialized have gone psychotic, like all "good" corporations. Somebody on Morgan Hill needs to remind the greedy bastards that they aren't the be all and end all, and that being so isn't good for anyone. The just keep wanting moar!!!
You know, I saw this and initially got kind of riled up. Then I did some research and found that it's really much ado about nothing (except to Epic Designs, of course... though I can't find any indication anywhere on the web about them being sued by S).
Everyone here is all wound up that the big guy is suing the little guy but in reality, the bike industry seems to be a bunch of whiney, sniveling snots who can't help but sue each other over anything and everything. Lemond v Trek. Trek Bicycles v Trek Winery. Specialized v... well, pretty much everyone. SRAM v Hayes. Stan's v Specialized.
I suspect if Epic Designs had the name first and had become a large company, they'd have sued Specialized when they introduced the Epic.
Personally, I think it's stupid - from the laws that allow companies to trademark common words, to the companies that exploit those laws, to the bully lawyers who pounce on the opportunity to target weaker (read smaller) companies, to the judges who don't rule those laws illegal and slam the lawyers for perpetuating the cycle. There is absolutely no common sense in this area of law. Epic Designs has no similarity to the Epic bike in style, logo or anything. Should be tossed as frivolous. When the Jacksonville Jaguars team formed, their logo did look like the Jaguar car hood ornament and company logo. Valid. Stumptown bike vs Stumpjumper bike? Too close to a registered, established brand. Valid.
Patents are a different thing. Technical and, theoretically, provable that one invention used the work of another. Except software, which, to me, seems a bit wrong.
In the end, it's just business as usual for Specialized and/or any other company. Any of the boutique brands that everyone is so proud of would, no doubt, do the same thing if they are able to pay for the lawyers to pursue and protect what they feel is their rightful property.
Is Specialized more aggressive than the norm? Probably. Does it leave a bad taste in my mouth? Definitely. Will it affect my next bike purchase. Yep... but not in the absolute "I'll never buy a S again"; more along the lines of they won't be an automatic (I have had numerous S bikes over the past 10 years because they just fit me and are usually a pretty good value). I will look first at other brands and compare them and S won't have the 'tie goes to S" kind of advantage. But in the end, if they have the best product for me, at the best value, I'll still buy one.
(I hope this doesn't get deleted... Specialized reads this forum, so will get some feedback from us directly. Blind bashing doesn't really carry much credibility, though so if you want them to give your opinion any credence, think before you hit "Post"!)
Everyone here is all wound up that the big guy is suing the little guy but in reality, the bike industry seems to be a bunch of whiney, sniveling snots who can't help but sue each other over anything and everything. Lemond v Trek. Trek Bicycles v Trek Winery. Specialized v... well, pretty much everyone. SRAM v Hayes. Stan's v Specialized.
I suspect if Epic Designs had the name first and had become a large company, they'd have sued Specialized when they introduced the Epic.
Personally, I think it's stupid - from the laws that allow companies to trademark common words, to the companies that exploit those laws, to the bully lawyers who pounce on the opportunity to target weaker (read smaller) companies, to the judges who don't rule those laws illegal and slam the lawyers for perpetuating the cycle. There is absolutely no common sense in this area of law. Epic Designs has no similarity to the Epic bike in style, logo or anything. Should be tossed as frivolous. When the Jacksonville Jaguars team formed, their logo did look like the Jaguar car hood ornament and company logo. Valid. Stumptown bike vs Stumpjumper bike? Too close to a registered, established brand. Valid.
Patents are a different thing. Technical and, theoretically, provable that one invention used the work of another. Except software, which, to me, seems a bit wrong.
In the end, it's just business as usual for Specialized and/or any other company. Any of the boutique brands that everyone is so proud of would, no doubt, do the same thing if they are able to pay for the lawyers to pursue and protect what they feel is their rightful property.
Is Specialized more aggressive than the norm? Probably. Does it leave a bad taste in my mouth? Definitely. Will it affect my next bike purchase. Yep... but not in the absolute "I'll never buy a S again"; more along the lines of they won't be an automatic (I have had numerous S bikes over the past 10 years because they just fit me and are usually a pretty good value). I will look first at other brands and compare them and S won't have the 'tie goes to S" kind of advantage. But in the end, if they have the best product for me, at the best value, I'll still buy one.
(I hope this doesn't get deleted... Specialized reads this forum, so will get some feedback from us directly. Blind bashing doesn't really carry much credibility, though so if you want them to give your opinion any credence, think before you hit "Post"!)
Come on Specialized
I agree with everyone else. I just don't see how the Bike Bags interfere with Specialzed ability to sell Epics. I can't wait till they start sueing people for having brains.
I agree with everyone else. I just don't see how the Bike Bags interfere with Specialzed ability to sell Epics. I can't wait till they start sueing people for having brains.
I'm waiting for them to sue Bicycle Retailing and Industry News, or BRAIN as they refer to themselves.Pedalfaraway said:I agree with everyone else. I just don't see how the Bike Bags interfere with Specialzed ability to sell Epics. I can't wait till they start sueing people for having brains.
Would be interesting to see if they'd sue an industry media outlet for using that name/abbreviation and risk the "power of the pen".
rather funny, since the NEW epic is actually a Titus RacerX
You're mistaken.gomer hardtale said:rather funny, since the NEW epic is actually a Titus RacerX
The Titus Rockstar is what your lookin' for.
https://bicycling.com/blogs/toolbox/files/2009/09/titus-rockstar-and-crank-bros-cobalt-29.jpg
I've been waiting for my Epic 2-9, once promised in November. Maybe I look elsewhere.
https://bicycling.com/blogs/toolbox/files/2009/09/titus-rockstar-and-crank-bros-cobalt-29.jpg
I've been waiting for my Epic 2-9, once promised in November. Maybe I look elsewhere.
This guy might not be a lawyer, but he is right on point.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaumaturge
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
(From what I understand, Specialized is legally obligated to protect their trademarks. If they fail to do so in even minor cases they set a precedent and lose the right to shut down other, more obvious infringements down the road.
Imagine if Trek made bags named "Epic"? How would people react? Differently, I'm guessing. If Specialized fails to protect its trademarks now, it opens up doors like that.
Now, as somebody else pointed out, the question of whether a company should even be able to trademark a common word like "Epic" is an entirely different matter. )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaumaturge
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
(From what I understand, Specialized is legally obligated to protect their trademarks. If they fail to do so in even minor cases they set a precedent and lose the right to shut down other, more obvious infringements down the road.
Imagine if Trek made bags named "Epic"? How would people react? Differently, I'm guessing. If Specialized fails to protect its trademarks now, it opens up doors like that.
Now, as somebody else pointed out, the question of whether a company should even be able to trademark a common word like "Epic" is an entirely different matter. )
smart thing to do
Business wise it's the smart thing to do. I doubt that it was Sinyard's idea to sue, but rather Specialized's legal team, who's job it is to protect the brand from infringement by companies of any size, large or small.
As far as Titus goes, I think I remember that they built a bike called the "Switchblade " that was basically a Stumpy FSR. The fact that they had to pay Specialized to use the "Horst link" suspension design, and still do, probably kept them from being sued. So, I would think that Titus builds bikes closely resembling Specialized designs, not the other way around.
Oh, and most people do go into business to make money. Sure you can go into business doing something for the love of it, but ultimately you need to make money to stay in business. And you need to protect your brand.
Business wise it's the smart thing to do. I doubt that it was Sinyard's idea to sue, but rather Specialized's legal team, who's job it is to protect the brand from infringement by companies of any size, large or small.
As far as Titus goes, I think I remember that they built a bike called the "Switchblade " that was basically a Stumpy FSR. The fact that they had to pay Specialized to use the "Horst link" suspension design, and still do, probably kept them from being sued. So, I would think that Titus builds bikes closely resembling Specialized designs, not the other way around.
Oh, and most people do go into business to make money. Sure you can go into business doing something for the love of it, but ultimately you need to make money to stay in business. And you need to protect your brand.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
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