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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is probably a dumb question, but... I have an ENO F/F hub, and I want to use a track cog with it to make a fixie out of a Klein Attitude. The chain line from the hub is WAY inside the outside line of BB shell (see pic). Is there anyway to make this work?

thanks
 

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belljeffw said:
This is probably a dumb question, but...
Here are some follow-up 'dumb' questions.

What cog are you using?

Is the extension (integrated spacer) of the cog towards the hub or away from it? This can buy you 2-3 mm (which unfortunately, is less than what you seem to need).

Is the hub straight in the horizontal drop outs?

In the long run, you will likely need to run the chainring in the middle position for the best chain line (dependent on BB spindle length and chainstay clearance for chosen gear ratio).

Have you contacted White Industries concerning this quandary?

dd..''

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm using a Surley track cog (16T) with the integrated spacer facing in.

The hub is in straight - the pic is a little skewed, though ;-)

I haven't talked to White Industries yet, but I will send them a note today. The SS forum was my first choice for answers. This is my 3rd SS project, and the first time I've had a problem that wasn't already answered in a previous post or the FAQ.

I was hoping there was a way to shift the hub body relative to the axle, but that seems pretty unlikely. In theory I could extend the cog with some creative welding, but then I wouldn't be able to use a lock ring...

I think I'm going to need a different hub - or a different frame...

- jeff
 

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Not a dumb question, this is oneof the issues with the White Ind hub - they have optimised the chainline for an mtb-SS with the middle chainring, so when you want to go fixie, it's hard to get a big chainring inboard enough without hitting the chainstay and get a good chainlline. Ideally the Fixie side should have a wider chainline, but they use the same hubshell on thier road version, and since road bikes have a narrower dropout and chainline, it usually works OK.

My solution was to put the biggest chainring I could on the inside of the spider, with the BB that gives the right chainline (in my case I could get a 40t in there), then pick a cog that gives you the desired ratio. I'm currently running 38:17 off-road, the 38 give me a bit more clearance so it doesn't rub the chainstay during hard efforts. Since cogs are available down to 13t, I have a pretty wide range if I want to ride road.

Cheers,

Tom

PS: your ruler is crooked, the inboard side lines up with the middle of the hub, but not the middle of the BB shell...
 

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What BB and crank are you using? Were they stock when it was a gearie?

Is it possible that your frame is bent?

What does the chainline from the fixed cog look like (compared to the BB shell) when the hub is flipped? Same as what you are showing but flipped.

dd..''
 

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Spacers might work

You might want to try some chainring spacers to move the ring inboard a little bit. These are cheap. You can also put a BB spacer between the hub shoulder and the cog but make sure it's a STEEL spacer. Aluminium can bend, shift, and otherwise moving causing your cog to loosen up. Be careful.

Check out www.sheldonbrown.com for more fixed gear chainline remedies, and good luke.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Tom, I think the skewed image is making the ruler look crooked. I C-clamped it to the cog to get the original line. I took the clamp off to get a better picture, and just set the ruler on the line I have marked.

Now I'm starting to worry dd had something when he asked about the hub being straight, though. I'm pretty sure it was straight, but I'll check it again when I get home from work...

The BB is a Race Face (113) with no adjustable chain line - I have one I can adjust, but haven't tried it yet. The cranks are Bontrager (probably Sport). I replaced them on a different bike with a set of RF Turbine without having to adjust the front derailleur.

The frame has been through a lot. I got it under warranty after snapping the DT on the first one, and haven't exactly been gentle with this one ;-) It wouldn't surprise me if it's warped. I'll check the chain line when I get home...

thanks - jeff
 

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Well, keep us posted. It seems to be a very strange problem, especially considering that the chainline is that far off. Modifying the hub offset will only make the flip/flop capability non-functional as the wheel will be off center.

One last set of questions...

What size chainring are you using in the photo?

and...

Regardless of said chainring, can you get the crank any closer with a shorter BB spindle? If so, how much? It is hard to judge from the photo, but it doesn't look like you have much room for adjustment. What is even more disconcerting is that the cog lines up inside the BB shell which leads me to believe something is wrong (either hub in crooked in the frame or frame bent, etc.). Which is why it will be interesting to see the chainline flipped. ;)

Again, keep us posted.

dd..''

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measure your chainline...

looks like the fixed side ENO has a ~45mm chainline. most multigeared mtb frames have there chainstays shaped really wide right next to the chainrings. if you can manage a smaller chainring the chainline might work out. depends on the klein measurements.

take a look at the pix...

hopefully this helps...
 

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Nice pix! ...and great explanation.

After performing some rough calculations on his photo (and correct me if I am wrong), his bike seems to have a ~48mm chainline up front (currently) from center BB to center of imaginary middle ring and a distance of ~21mm from center of rear cog to inside rear drop-out. The interesting thing is that these dimensions are quite close to the ones you have provided, yet his chainline is ~15mm off. Very perplexing.

dd..'''
 

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hard holding ruler steady...

dodjy said:
Nice pix! ...and great explanation.

After performing some rough calculations on his photo (and correct me if I am wrong), his bike seems to have a ~48mm chainline up front (currently) from center BB to center of imaginary middle ring and a distance of ~21mm from center of rear cog to inside rear drop-out. The interesting thing is that these dimensions are quite close to the ones you have provided, yet his chainline is ~15mm off. Very perplexing.

dd..'''
perplexing indeed. it was hard holding the ruler steady with one hand while trying to get a good crisp photo with the other. use the front chainring measurement pic as a guideline only. the rear is a little better representation. check it- 135mm/2 is 67.5. now subtract the ruler measurement from the pic (22mm) and you get 45.5mm. i assure you, if i could hold the ruler steady enough for the front it would show around 45mm as well.

more bike porn with every post...this one is copyrighted it came out so good. if anybody wnats a print of let me know...
 

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belljeffw said:
...The BB is a Race Face (113) with no adjustable chain line - I have one I can adjust, but haven't tried it yet. The cranks are Bontrager (probably Sport). I replaced them on a different bike with a set of RF Turbine without having to adjust the front derailleur.
...
thanks - jeff
Hi Jeff, your BB looks like a square taper, which are available from ~107mm to +127mm widths (from shimano anyways). Depending on the cranks, and how far they sit up the taper, the front chainline can vary quite a bit (one of the advantages of a spline system with a hard stop is you get a very repeatable chainlines). Also, as Ginz said, you can use chainring spacers instead of getting another BB. Measure from the centre of the BB shell/hub out for the chainline. If the frame is slightly warped, a ruler on the cog or chainring may not line up with the frame.

You will still be limited by the largest chainring you can put on without hitting the chainstay.

Cheers,

Tom
 

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fixedbeer said:
perplexing indeed. it was hard holding the ruler steady with one hand while trying to get a good crisp photo with the other. use the front chainring measurement pic as a guideline only. the rear is a little better representation. check it- 135mm/2 is 67.5. now subtract the ruler measurement from the pic (22mm) and you get 45.5mm. i assure you, if i could hold the ruler steady enough for the front it would show around 45mm as well.

more bike porn with every post...this one is copyrighted it came out so good. if anybody wnats a print of let me know...
I think your measurements are right on!

I was estimating belljeffw's chainline from his picture of the Klein and comparing them to your provided dimensions. Sorry if I didn't write that clear enough.

Again, great photos and explanation!

dd..''
 

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oh, sorry...

dodjy said:
I think your measurements are right on!

I was estimating belljeffw's chainline from his picture of the Klein and comparing them to your provided dimensions. Sorry if I didn't write that clear enough.

Again, great photos and explanation!

dd..''
i see now. i never was good at reading comprehension.

yes, his CL does look to be about 15mm off judging by his pic.

and, yes, more bike porn...ok, not bike porn but something new- trail porn; this little stretch is one of my favorites to take at speed. 25mph+, then there's a sharp hair-pin left at the bottom which skirts a pond and if you don't hit it right, you end up in the drink. fun stuff on a hot summer day.
 

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local little trail..

dodjy said:
I should keep replying solely to see more cool pics.

Where is the trial pic taken?

dd..''
here on cape cod called beebe woods. it really isn't anything special, just a couple miles long but it is convenient. mostly used by hikers and dog walkers. the section in the photo is one of the only places on the trail you have an uninterupted view of the turn through the trees. so, that's why i like to up the speed there. no chances of sneaking up on a hiker coming around the corner.

and now, bike porn...cross season is almost here.
 

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fixedbeer said:
here on cape cod called beebe woods. it really isn't anything special, just a couple miles long but it is convenient. mostly used by hikers and dog walkers. the section in the photo is one of the only places on the trail you have an uninterupted view of the turn through the trees. so, that's why i like to up the speed there. no chances of sneaking up on a hiker coming around the corner.

and now, bike porn...cross season is almost here.
Nice pics. What brakes are you running? I love the STI/SS mix! Very contrasty. Must get a lot of great comments (and bad ones too). Sweet ride!

dd..''
 

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xtr canti's

dodjy said:
Nice pics. What brakes are you running? I love the STI/SS mix! Very contrasty. Must get a lot of great comments (and bad ones too). Sweet ride!

dd..''
for brakes. those are the only road style brake levers i have. eventually i will change them over to just brake levers. it's fun making shifting noises while riding with people who know you only have one gear and it's fixed. freaks'em out.

it would seem that we have gotten off topic but oh well. we can chat while waiting to see if belljeffw gets his problem solved.

and of couse, more pix...this one was taken right near my house as i was riding home one evening after a long exploratory ride of the trails that link together the cranberry bogs on the cape. lots of ridin' in sand. good leg work out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yikes, who asked if the frame could be bent??

I don't know if it was welded like this or if it's warped from supporting up my fat butt for too long, but the rear triangle at the axle is higher on the right than the left by almost a cm. I couldn't figure out an accurate side-to-side measurement, but when I flipped the hub around, the CL formed by the cog was about 6mm on the outside of the BB shell. On either side, the CL formed by the small chain ring is right on top of the rear cog, though.

I put a chain on it and it seems to track with no problems. I've also had this setup in the past as a SS with a cassette and spacers without the chain falling off. I just want to use it as a commuter bike, so I'm not too worried about the frame breaking.

The problem I have now is gear ratios. The largest chain ring that can fit on the inside is a 26 at best, and the smallest cog I can get is 13t for a 2:1 ratio. I need to go higher than that, maybe 3:1 to get a decent commuter ride for Va. Beach - the land of no hills.

If I use a spacer on the hub, I can get the middle ring to line up. But there's no room left for a lock ring. Could I get away with using lock-tight to hold it in place?

thanks - jeff
 
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