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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

just wonder if anybody thinks about this aswell:
I currently own a 2008 s-works enduro sl. Fox 150 RLC Talas and an RP23 with needle bearings as shock (huge difference compared to the really bad AFR). Weight is below 11.9kg / 26lb Actually I came from a Stumpjumper. (Think life is better without a brain meanwhile.)

If I compare the specs:
- Travel: same
- Geometry: barely a difference
- Weight: almost same, ok with same components Stumpjumper would be lighter few grams
- Suspension: AFR to Stumpjumper big difference, but with RP23 and needle bearings? (I don't believe in the Specialized marketing here, AFR and bearings were really not what one could ask from Specialized)
- Looks: Enduro SL probably will be one of the all time favorites

Anything to add? Is newer better?
 

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I don't have any advice but I'm in the same boat. 2007 Enduro SL that I really love, great bike. I guess I may have to try one of those RP23's, never had any complaints about the AFR and I'm somewhat picky about suspension performance. But then I like the E150 too. 26 lbs is pretty impressive too I'm just a hair under 30 on a large.

Anyway, it is amazing how close the geometry is to the new SJ evo. I don't think the things you mentioned are deal breakers, but what I keep coming back to is the 142+, tapered steer tube and for extra bonus the bb30. Those things should make a big difference in frame stiffness, the only complaint I have about the '07 SL is the rear end is flexy.

Given those small differences, if we're smart we just save our money and ride the Enduros till they crack. But.....the lust ! And we might be slightly faster !

To throw more crap into the mix, I'm looking at the '11 Enduro as well since you can actually buy the s-works frame in a 26". AGain the geometry is really really close, I'm *guessing* you are talking an extra half lb of weight (does anyone know ? ) but adding the beefiness of the modern Enduro which is good for me at 210 and a little adventurous.
 

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For what it's worth I just picked up the 12 carbon stumpy evo 26. Numerous bikes over the years. I'm already thinking it's my favorite.
 

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I've just returned to a secondhand expert sl after my 2009 enduro sworks was stolen last year, and have tried a blur lt, then a nomad2 as replacements. I found the 2008 enduro frame for sale cheap so bought it so I could swap shocks, forks, BB around and it fits me like a glove. Also fits my bike rack better. Selling the santa cruzes, never found their suspension to my taste and too much maintenance.
Today I rode it with a vivid rc2 coil c enduro needle bearings coupled with my van 36 fork and was amazed it didn't bob at all up the 800metre climb (about half the LSC on) and of course was luscious on the way up and down. I will trash the AFR, and have an RP23 and revelation fork on the way but might leave the coils on for a while despite the weight and water bottle loss. Bike a bit chunky at 31lb but feels lighter than the nomad with the same components and weight.
Going to a spec demo day tomorrow, might try a new SJ again, evo if they have one, not convinced last year when I went to demo that new frame felt worth "upgrading" to. The standard SJ brain is an aquired taste...
Instead of a new bike what about some carbon hoops and new suspension?
 

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If you had an aluminum Enduro, then I might say get the stumpy. But let me say this, it all depends on where and how you ride when determining these bikes. My brother has an 09 stumpy elite and we swap bikes ever so often; depending on the trail, I may even take his stumpy out rather than my Enduro. On narrower, less fast, and more xc type trails the stumpy just feels better. Its lighter, livelier, and can handle the slower, tighter trails better. On the same trail, my enduro feels slower, heavier and less alive compared to the stumpy. But my Enduro also has a coil rear shock and a chainguide/bashguard adding weight.

But then the stumpy cant compare to the faster, more aggressive trails that the Enduro was built for. With you having a carbon Enduro weighing in at 26lbs, I think you have the best option for every type of riding and the best of both worlds when it comes to the stumpy and the Enduro. I would look into some upgrades for your current Enduro; better components on an already well designed bike can make all the difference.

What year is your Talas? You could jump to a 2012 Talas 160. You could also go to a RS Monarch rear shock; I've read good reviews on their new shock. Maybe upgrade the brakes to Hope tech M4s or Shimano's new xtr brakes. Shorter stem? Wider bars? Just a thought.

Remember, it all depends on how you ride and what you're looking for. And if you're the type of person that will notice the upgrades. I could change my brothers rebound on his shock by 3 clicks and he wouldn't know; so you really have to ask yourself if you will notice the changes. I ask this question a lot because I run into so many mtbers that don't really know the difference; they just go by what someone tells them. And spends a lot of money in the process as well.
 

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I have this one and i havnt thought about anything else.That haven bars looks awesome :)
13.5 kg and looking forward for a new tires.These are strong but heavy .
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't have any advice but I'm in the same boat. 2007 Enduro SL that I really love, great bike. I guess I may have to try one of those RP23's, never had any complaints about the AFR and I'm somewhat picky about suspension performance. But then I like the E150 too. 26 lbs is pretty impressive too I'm just a hair under 30 on a large.

Anyway, it is amazing how close the geometry is to the new SJ evo. I don't think the things you mentioned are deal breakers, but what I keep coming back to is the 142+, tapered steer tube and for extra bonus the bb30. Those things should make a big difference in frame stiffness, the only complaint I have about the '07 SL is the rear end is flexy.

Given those small differences, if we're smart we just save our money and ride the Enduros till they crack. But.....the lust ! And we might be slightly faster !

To throw more crap into the mix, I'm looking at the '11 Enduro as well since you can actually buy the s-works frame in a 26". AGain the geometry is really really close, I'm *guessing* you are talking an extra half lb of weight (does anyone know ? ) but adding the beefiness of the modern Enduro which is good for me at 210 and a little adventurous.
I think the biggest step in weight saving was to put the fox talas on the bike. Of course you loose the rigidness of the E150.
Have you ever tightened the upper shock mount to the torques given by specialized? The shock is barely movable by hand. Recognizing this was really the last reason to change the setup. With the needle bearings the forces of the screws do not affect the movement of the shock at all. Addtitionally I strongly believe that the RP23 has lower friction or a better designed negative air spring. All this led to a tremendously improved sensitivity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've just returned to a secondhand expert sl after my 2009 enduro sworks was stolen last year, and have tried a blur lt, then a nomad2 as replacements. I found the 2008 enduro frame for sale cheap so bought it so I could swap shocks, forks, BB around and it fits me like a glove. Also fits my bike rack better. Selling the santa cruzes, never found their suspension to my taste and too much maintenance.
Today I rode it with a vivid rc2 coil c enduro needle bearings coupled with my van 36 fork and was amazed it didn't bob at all up the 800metre climb (about half the LSC on) and of course was luscious on the way up and down. I will trash the AFR, and have an RP23 and revelation fork on the way but might leave the coils on for a while despite the weight and water bottle loss. Bike a bit chunky at 31lb but feels lighter than the nomad with the same components and weight.
Going to a spec demo day tomorrow, might try a new SJ again, evo if they have one, not convinced last year when I went to demo that new frame felt worth "upgrading" to. The standard SJ brain is an aquired taste...
Instead of a new bike what about some carbon hoops and new suspension?
I came from a brained stumpy. After 4 years of brain on the bikes I decided to go brainless. However I did not think that the AFR was so "different" compared to a RP23. And I tried lots of things, even the s-tune of spec which removed the spike valve. I would not go back.

Currently I have a 32 talas on it. I don't think that i need more travel. Actually I would go with less, but spec does not provide bikes without brain with less travel. At least at higher end. Don't think that this is the right strategy, but surely they believe in their brain. I do not anymore. You loose sensitiviy.
In addition to that I would go for a RS fork. Ever since I had a reba (on an epic) I think that responsiveness of RS was better compared to Fox. I thought that Fox did it with the 2011 redefinition of the air spring rate, however i did not ride latest RS forks

So you are right, there a lots of possibilities...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If you had an aluminum Enduro, then I might say get the stumpy. But let me say this, it all depends on where and how you ride when determining these bikes. My brother has an 09 stumpy elite and we swap bikes ever so often; depending on the trail, I may even take his stumpy out rather than my Enduro. On narrower, less fast, and more xc type trails the stumpy just feels better. Its lighter, livelier, and can handle the slower, tighter trails better. On the same trail, my enduro feels slower, heavier and less alive compared to the stumpy. But my Enduro also has a coil rear shock and a chainguide/bashguard adding weight.

But then the stumpy cant compare to the faster, more aggressive trails that the Enduro was built for. With you having a carbon Enduro weighing in at 26lbs, I think you have the best option for every type of riding and the best of both worlds when it comes to the stumpy and the Enduro. I would look into some upgrades for your current Enduro; better components on an already well designed bike can make all the difference.

What year is your Talas? You could jump to a 2012 Talas 160. You could also go to a RS Monarch rear shock; I've read good reviews on their new shock. Maybe upgrade the brakes to Hope tech M4s or Shimano's new xtr brakes. Shorter stem? Wider bars? Just a thought.

Remember, it all depends on how you ride and what you're looking for. And if you're the type of person that will notice the upgrades. I could change my brothers rebound on his shock by 3 clicks and he wouldn't know; so you really have to ask yourself if you will notice the changes. I ask this question a lot because I run into so many mtbers that don't really know the difference; they just go by what someone tells them. And spends a lot of money in the process as well.
In fact what I like to change are the brakes. I have currently Martas installed on the bike. The new XTRs really feel great as the x.o do. Also I like the crispy shifting of the x.o triggers (9s) , but shifting efforts are high compared to shimano. I am thinking about a change here aswell.
Again you can spend lots of money... But often it's "only" different (not alwys better)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If you had an aluminum Enduro, then I might say get the stumpy. But let me say this, it all depends on where and how you ride when determining these bikes. My brother has an 09 stumpy elite and we swap bikes ever so often; depending on the trail, I may even take his stumpy out rather than my Enduro. On narrower, less fast, and more xc type trails the stumpy just feels better. Its lighter, livelier, and can handle the slower, tighter trails better. On the same trail, my enduro feels slower, heavier and less alive compared to the stumpy. But my Enduro also has a coil rear shock and a chainguide/bashguard adding weight.

But then the stumpy cant compare to the faster, more aggressive trails that the Enduro was built for. With you having a carbon Enduro weighing in at 26lbs, I think you have the best option for every type of riding and the best of both worlds when it comes to the stumpy and the Enduro. I would look into some upgrades for your current Enduro; better components on an already well designed bike can make all the difference.

What year is your Talas? You could jump to a 2012 Talas 160. You could also go to a RS Monarch rear shock; I've read good reviews on their new shock. Maybe upgrade the brakes to Hope tech M4s or Shimano's new xtr brakes. Shorter stem? Wider bars? Just a thought.

Remember, it all depends on how you ride and what you're looking for. And if you're the type of person that will notice the upgrades. I could change my brothers rebound on his shock by 3 clicks and he wouldn't know; so you really have to ask yourself if you will notice the changes. I ask this question a lot because I run into so many mtbers that don't really know the difference; they just go by what someone tells them. And spends a lot of money in the process as well.
Forgot to say, my talas is a 2011 version with kashima already. Don't know wether this does really mean anything. Also I know the red knob of the shock:thumbsup:. I would probably not recognize one click, but 3 yes I think I would
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I don't have any advice but I'm in the same boat. 2007 Enduro SL that I really love, great bike. I guess I may have to try one of those RP23's, never had any complaints about the AFR and I'm somewhat picky about suspension performance. But then I like the E150 too. 26 lbs is pretty impressive too I'm just a hair under 30 on a large.

Anyway, it is amazing how close the geometry is to the new SJ evo. I don't think the things you mentioned are deal breakers, but what I keep coming back to is the 142+, tapered steer tube and for extra bonus the bb30. Those things should make a big difference in frame stiffness, the only complaint I have about the '07 SL is the rear end is flexy.

Given those small differences, if we're smart we just save our money and ride the Enduros till they crack. But.....the lust ! And we might be slightly faster !

To throw more crap into the mix, I'm looking at the '11 Enduro as well since you can actually buy the s-works frame in a 26". AGain the geometry is really really close, I'm *guessing* you are talking an extra half lb of weight (does anyone know ? ) but adding the beefiness of the modern Enduro which is good for me at 210 and a little adventurous.
Ys the lust, sometimes it would be better not to know the new stuff :nono:
 

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Ok. Yeah I was going to mention a 2012 Talas, but you have a 2011 so that won't be worth it. You have a pretty good set up as is with the suspension. Like you said; brakes, shifter and little things can make the difference. Having an sworks enduro you already have some pretty dam good components, and weighing in at 26lbs.

You could send you rp23 to PUSH, and have it custom tuned. You could add one of those adjustable seats; really helps when the trail is consistently up and down. Upgrade the shifter, rear derailleur and brakes; lighter rims depending on how you ride. Maybe swap the cassette for a 10 speed.

These are just thoughts and I'm just trying to help out. From what I've picked up from reading what you've wrote, you like to ride xc, so you are not really looking for a more aggressive setup. Just to improve on what you have. So I would consider the stuff you mentioned and what I've listed in this post. Not much more you could do to the bike other than getting a new one.
 

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i just got one 08 s-works enduro sl frame... and i wanted to get rid of the AFR shock and used my rp23 that i had on my pitch... But when i was changing the shock i found out the enduro has a wider lower shock mount, and that can`t change the bushings from the AFR to the rp23.

Anyone know the bushing size of the lower shock mount in the enduro.?
 

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^ Someone needs to double check on me, but I think its an m8 x 22. And since you have a Fox shock its a 12.7mm, basically for Fox shocks.
 

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Today I got the offset bushing I was waiting for....

So the 2008 sworks enduro sl carbon shock bushing size are:

Upper: 22xM8
Lower: 27xM8
 

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So just looking at the geometry on '08 Enduro SL vs '12 SJ Evo:
-SJ Evo has almost an inch(21mm) lower bb height than the Enduro SL(in low position)
-Enduro SL has about an inch(20mm +/- 1-3mm) longer wheelbase than SJ Evo(varies on size)

One can infer based on that the Enduro would be slightly more stable at speed, but the SJ EVO will turn better.. Really not that massive of a difference if you ask me, but I would surely not say the Enduro SL has much of advantage on the faster stuff, especially with a higher bb height.
 

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On my old 2009 sworks enduro I changed from the terrible upper AFR shock pivot bushings to enduro needle bearings and it made a big difference.
With my current 2009 enduro expert sl my new 2012 RP23 is miles better again than the AFR but still needs the needle bearings to work properly, and in my opinion, for the lower shock attachment point too.
My 2012 RP23 is as smooth as my 2011 vivid RC2 coil and weighs 308g instead of 833g.
My new revelation fork is 25mm shorter a2c than the van 36 and combined with losing weight from the front (rev fork 1730g cut/starnut in vs 2470g) and the nice RP23 platform (light tunes) makes ascending a breeze. Downhill it feels a little less sturdy than the van 36 but though it flexes more I feel that I can whip around corners faster (headangle somehow still 67.2deg on iphone, was 66.9 with van 36) and actually absorbs trail chatter better so is less fatiguing. I have adapted to the lower height by raising stem a bit on steerer tube and seems ok. I occasionally have banged pedals on rocks but low setting/520mm a2c fork length gives a more modern lower BB height and I still have durable BB bearing options unlike the PF30 in a modern stumpjumper.
The rear is flexier than my old alu nomad2 but I'm getting a 10mm bolt tthrough axle for my Hope Evo2 hub which should help.
I still miss the old E150 fork/front wheel combo characteristics of feeling light and unshakeable but don't miss having to service it every 4 weeks and fiddle with it to reduce stiction. The rev is miles better.
I've just put the van and coil back on it to check and the bike feels like a tank cycling around the house so will be getting back into the workshop again tonight to return it to it's natural 27lb state.
Despite liking my new/old enduro SL if I could find a carbon one again (my old one was stolen) I'd buy it for the better ride quality, and might yet get a carbon evo as I expect it's a lot stiffer, I haven't ridden one though, or a new carbon enduro. Has anyone done so and can comment?
 
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