Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner

1 - 20 of 356 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
i've been hearing good and bad things about the enduro fork seals? i'm at the point of changing the oil in my 36 Van RC2. what are your thoughts on the enduro seals? are they good? or do i just stick with the stock wipers and seals?
 

·
Go back to school
Joined
·
648 Posts
Whoever trashed talked Enduro has not used there new stuff or didn't install it correctly.

Pretty much everything about Enduro is better than OEM seals. Design, durometer, tolerances, material.

Plus if something doesn't look right with your seal, give them a call and expect much better customer support.
 

·
just along for the ride
Joined
·
3,033 Posts
crazyjeys said:
i've been hearing good and bad things about the enduro fork seals? i'm at the point of changing the oil in my 36 Van RC2. what are your thoughts on the enduro seals? are they good? or do i just stick with the stock wipers and seals?
Enduro seals seem to work longer, have a set I installed in '05 still going strong, original fox lasted less than 1000 miles. Going on 3000 on the enduros, recommended!:thumbsup:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,198 Posts
Their seals are the shiznit . Make sure you lightly lube the seal before you install .
 

·
Elitest thrill junkie
Joined
·
35,025 Posts
Bikesair said:
Whoever trashed talked Enduro has not used there new stuff or didn't install it correctly.

Pretty much everything about Enduro is better than OEM seals. Design, durometer, tolerances, material.

Plus if something doesn't look right with your seal, give them a call and expect much better customer support.
Gunna disagree with this, except when talking about Fox seals. Enduro seals are better than fox, because fox seals are pathetic. Compared to Marzocchi and any other true oil seals, enduros are not better in my experience. Sometimes they are slightly cheaper, and they work well enough, but they are no better. The tolerances are whatever the fork company specs from the seal supplier, and if they spec the correct tolerances, there's no problem. Fox seals are miserable because they aren't true oil seals, the enduro stuff is better, but still suffers from the same general problem. I have Enduro seals on 2 out of 4 forks right now.

If you truely want to fix the fox seals, you send the fork to Push. Push will machine a lip to allow for a true oil seal to be put in there (one that is held in place by a clip or other retaining device that causes the seal to press against the stanchion harder the more internal pressure there is).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,815 Posts
Jayem said:
If you truely want to fix the fox seals, you send the fork to Push. Push will machine a lip to allow for a true oil seal to be put in there (one that is held in place by a clip or other retaining device that causes the seal to press against the stanchion harder the more internal pressure there is).
This again? :rolleyes:

Enduro seals ARE true oil seals. Oil seals don't need to be held in by a clip to be an oil seal, and in many applications only friction holds them in place (like in a Fox). With the Enduro's oil seals, like with any oil seal, as the pressure builds the seal is pressed more tightly against the shaft (stanchion in our case).

With old Marzocchi you could adjust the oil level to provide bottom out control, and for that you needed a seal held in place by something more than friction, but with virtually everyone going to cartridge style dampers, and low oil bath volumes, this isn't really very viable any more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,301 Posts
If you truely want to fix the fox seals, you send the fork to Push. Push will machine a lip to allow for a true oil seal to be put in there (one that is held in place by a clip or other retaining device that causes the seal to press against the stanchion harder the more internal pressure there is).
This is only true of the 32mm FOX forks. For the 36 we utilize the stock OEM FOX seals as it is the best product for the application. We got a lot of flack for how long it took for us to come to market with servicing and tuning for the 36 forks and a lot of it came down to the seal system.

Darren
 

·
otb club member
Joined
·
2,949 Posts
Jayem said:
...the enduro stuff is better, but still suffers from the same general problem.
Please tell me the general problems our seal kits suffer from. Have you found our oil seals to not hold oil? Have you found our wipers to not keep junk out of your fork? What problems are you experiencing? If you have had any failures with our products, why haven't you contacted me about them?

To tell somebody they need to have the lowers of their forks re-machined in order to have their seals function properly is a joke. We have thousands of satisfied customers who have proven otherwise.

And another thing... To make the blanket statement that our oil seals do not use retaining rings is misleading. On fork designs that incorporate retaining rings, our oil seals use retaining rings. On systems that don't, our oil seals don't.
 

·
Dead Legs
Joined
·
122 Posts
Just get the Enduros like I did, it will make you forget about your fork.. which is a good thing.
The BB's are even better as far as I'm concerned! Nice stuff.
 

·
Takin'er easy
Joined
·
184 Posts
Run whichever seals you want, but don't forget to service the fork regularly. By service, I mean change the lubricating oil. The Fox 36 forks use a very small amount of lubricating oil, and regardless of the seal system, contaminated oil will do damage to the bushings and stanchions of the fork. I see a lot of $3-400 mistakes that could be avoided with regular service.

The whole which-seal argument is a red herring in my opinion.
 

·
otb club member
Joined
·
2,949 Posts
bikesaregood said:
Run whichever seals you want, but don't forget to service the fork regularly.
Let me take the opportunity to emphasize the maintenance point made by bikesaregood. Just because your fork may not be spewing oil does not mean that it does not need service. Keeping junk out and oil in certainly helps to extend maintenance intervals, but I get concerned when I hear reports of "riding for years without having to touch anything" etc.. Also, seals are a mechanical device and are not meant to last forever. We warranty the kits we sell directly for one year. If it's been a year and you are tearing down the fork for routine maintenance, go ahead and change the seals.
 

·
Elitest thrill junkie
Joined
·
35,025 Posts
Chris2fur said:
Please tell me the general problems our seal kits suffer from.
They eventually fail, just like any other seal that I've used. They don't last longer than any other seal in my experience either, and I've used LOTS of enduros and others. That doesn't mean I won't buy them, but they aren't anything special or better than anything else.

Yes, to tell someone they need to get their fork machined for proper seals IS a joke. The fox system IS a joke compared to the other stuff out there. They have great damping carts, but not so great lubrication/seals.

To Bad Mechanic: The fox system is NOT really going to press against the stanchion that much when the pressure builds up in the fork, that's the entire point, they insert from the top and rely on that friction to hold them in place. When the fork cycles, there is an increase in pressure. Over time, that cumulative effect overcomes the seal, much faster than on other systems. If they were really sealing against the leg to the extent of other proper high pressure seals, they'd pop out eventually (does happen sometimes) due to this pressure. Yes, the Fox system is pretty poor comparatively, but then again it doesn't use much oil and is lighter...which also prevents as much lubrication and also leads to premature failure. Oh well, you can't have it all yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,815 Posts
Jayem said:
To Bad Mechanic: The fox system is NOT really going to press against the stanchion that much when the pressure builds up in the fork, that's the entire point, they insert from the top and rely on that friction to hold them in place. When the fork cycles, there is an increase in pressure. Over time, that cumulative effect overcomes the seal, much faster than on other systems. If they were really sealing against the leg to the extent of other proper high pressure seals, they'd pop out eventually (does happen sometimes) due to this pressure. Yes, the Fox system is pretty poor comparatively, but then again it doesn't use much oil and is lighter...which also prevents as much lubrication and also leads to premature failure. Oh well, you can't have it all yet.
Which, if it were an old Marzocchi, might actually mean something. The reason it doesn't pop out isn't because it's not sealing, it's because the pressure a Fox generates under use is not enough to ever pop the seal out. The friction is more than enough to hold it in place, and there's no reason to over engineer it. There is nothing wrong with using friction to keep a seal in place if it's sufficient; take a look at a car some time, most of the seals are held in by friction alone.

There is no "cumulative effect" from the pressure increase the fork goes through. Seals fail from normal wear and age, not from the normal pressure of the fork cycling.

In my experience, Enduro seals last as long, if not longer, than seals from Marzocchi or Rock Shox. I'm installed them on Fox, RS, and Zokes, and the first set I ever installed 4 (5?) years ago is still going strong.

The Fox has sufficient lubrication so long as the oil is kept clean and kept in the fork.
 

·
All 26.5" all the time!
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Jayem said:
They eventually fail, just like any other seal that I've used. They don't last longer than any other seal in my experience either, and I've used LOTS of enduros and others. That doesn't mean I won't buy them, but they aren't anything special or better than anything else.
I'm not too terribly impressed with upgrade seal kits for the Fox 32 application either. The major component that is missing from the OEM design as well as aftermarket replacements is the seal bushing-- #36 in this diagram:



This metal washer sits directly under the main seal and prevents lateral movement between the slider and the stanchion from "burping" the seal. Motorcycle forks have them, Marzocchi forks have them, even the Mag 21 has them. Without this bushing, any sustantial hit will deform the seal enough to allow oil to escape. The only reason the oil isn't as noticeable with the upgrade kits is due to the additional dust wiper.

Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that the Fox 32 forks are high maintenance and plan accordingly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,815 Posts
Are you saying the stanchion will flex enough in the 1cm between the oil seal and bushing it sits right above for the it to deform the seal enough to break it's seal?
 
1 - 20 of 356 Posts
Top