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Discussion Starter #1
Yes, I know it's true that I recently got an Endorphin and have been gushing about it like a virgin that just got laid by a hot nymphomaniac that moved in next door and visits daily.:lol: :D

The fact is the Endorphin has some traits that people think you need a 29er to get. And now I realize you don't.:nono: Slacker geometry really transforms the 26" wheel.

I get this perspective coming from a steeper 69 degree Motolite, to a 69.5 degree 29" Behemoth, and now to the very slack 67 degree Endorphin.( Which may be more like 66.6 degrees with my 160mm fork vs the 150mm in the geometry chart.) I had always equated slack angles like this to downhill bikes. Not for overall trail riding.:nono: I was wrong!!!:yesnod:

Last night we rode a section called "Yetman Wash" here in Tucson, and it is just the kind of place people say their 29er's work better for them. It consists of a trail through the bottom of a draw with nothing but sand, pea gravel, lots of loose rocks, and embedded rocks. It is a momentum nightmare!!

It is a hard section of trail to maintain momentum. I always make it through it, and don't ever dab, but it is not a fun section, and sometimes not so graceful looking doing it. Generally the front end is trying to knife in, and squirrel around, plus you hit things you wanted to miss, and get bounced around. It takes concentration, and really focusing to keep the weight off the bars and things going straight.

The 29" wheels helped a little bit compared to the 26" wheels of the Motolite. I expected this from the things I had read about 29er's.

What I did not expect was for the Endorphin to exhibit this same trait even better!!:eekster:
The Endorphin absolutely slayed this section!!

The front end did not knife in and stayed on top of the deep, loose junk. It was really easy to keep the front end straight, and when I did hit rocks it just rolled over, and soaked it up without changing lines. I normally run in the middle ring in first or second in back. But even after 10 weeks off the bike, I was running 4th and 5th gear and hammering like mad!! This was the fastest and smoothest I have ever rode this section of trail. Instead of struggling with it, I flat tore it up!! I met some oncoming riders and let them have the better worked in line, and I steered out into the bigger loose rocks where they did not want to go, and powered on around them, still cranking like mad.:thumbsup:

It seems to me that the slacker head angle gives the 26" wheel the same traits as the 29" wheel. It wants to push up over rocks instead of getting hung up. It wants to float on sand and gravel instead of knifing in and robbing momentum. It steers through this stuff like nothing I have ridden before, and that includes the 29er I just came off of. Add in to it that the suspension is better than any bike I have ridden and it is a win, win.:thumbsup:

So I feel that I did not lose anything at all moving to this from a 29er. I gained better suspension, better fork choice, stiffer fork and wheels, and much better turning. I thought I was going to lose the 29er stability, and sand/gravel float. But it is actually better. You can't go very slack on a 29er or it turns like crap. But on the Endorphin, it works everywhere!!

All the strengths of a fantastic 26" bike, and it out 29's a 29er.:thumbsup:
 

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High and slack is the way. An over-forked Quasi-Moto was the ticket here before the Endorphin arrived and Knolly took it to another level.

Tucson eh? Make sure to let Evil Patrick know you're happy :).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Mrwhlr said:
High and slack is the way. An over-forked Quasi-Moto was the ticket here before the Endorphin arrived and Knolly took it to another level.

Tucson eh? Make sure to let Evil Patrick know you're happy :).
I know of Evil Patrick, but have only met him online, mostly on Tucsonmtb.com.

I do know that he had an Endorphin and sold it for a Firebird because he said it was a snappier climber. His opinion made me research the Endorphin a lot, but I also found a lot of opinions that said the Endorphin was plusher.

One of my favorite bikes from years past was a 1998 FSR Elite. It had a very active rear suspension(probably even more so than the Motolite) and I liked it. So I wasn't put off by there maybe being a bike that's a slight bit snappier climber. If I wanted that I could go back to my KHS soft-tail.

I'm very happy with my decision!!:thumbsup:
 

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twowheelsdown2002 said:
Yes, I know it's true that I recently got an Endorphin and have been gushing about it like a virgin that just got laid by a hot nymphomaniac that moved in next door and visits daily.:lol: :D:
Means nothing without pics. I demand pics of said hot nympho with bikes. Preferably Knolly bikes, of course.
 

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twowheelsdown2002 said:
I know of Evil Patrick, but have only met him online, mostly on Tucsonmtb.com.

I do know that he had an Endorphin and sold it for a Firebird because he said it was a snappier climber. His opinion made me research the Endorphin a lot, but I also found a lot of opinions that said the Endorphin was plusher.

I'm very happy with my decision!!:thumbsup:
Glad you're happy. EP and I go back around ten years. I enjoy giving him shite for not taking the time to set up his Knolly properly. When we ride I make sure he gets a long look at how well they actually do climb :D.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mrwhlr said:
Glad you're happy. EP and I go back around ten years. I enjoy giving him shite for not taking the time to set up his Knolly properly. When we ride I make sure he gets a long look at how well they actually do climb :D.
Out of curiosity, what do you think he had set up wrong? And do you have any points or suggestions? Thanks
 

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It took me several rides to get the saddle position where I wanted it due to the slack STA. Slid it mostly forward on the rails and BINGO!. Great for tech climbing and I can easily get behind the saddle on the steeep downs.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
LAKESNAKE said:
It took me several rides to get the saddle position where I wanted it due to the slack STA. Slid it mostly forward on the rails and BINGO!. Great for tech climbing and I can easily get behind the saddle on the steeep downs.
That is what me and my girlfriend did as well. All the way forward works for me for climbing.

Plus we have the Reverbs, so it is real easy to get the seat out of the way when needed.
 

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Val right? I bought a Behemoth off you early last season. I had a lot of growing pains on that frame and ended up with a Ventana Terremoto. The HA is about 67 or so with a 170mm Lyrik, so I know exactly what you are talking about. Glad to see that the Knolly is treating you so well.

Happy trails!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Calhoun said:
Val right? I bought a Behemoth off you early last season. I had a lot of growing pains on that frame and ended up with a Ventana Terremoto. The HA is about 67 or so with a 170mm Lyrik, so I know exactly what you are talking about. Glad to see that the Knolly is treating you so well.

Happy trails!
Hi again. You bought the 2005 Long Chainstay model Behemoth from me before me and Sharon got the short chainstay models.

So it looks like you went back to 26" wheels as well. I thought the short chainstay Behemoths were going to do it for us, but we just could not adjust completely to the big wheels. Especially for cornering. Also in tight rocky technical stuff they were ungainly at times.

I guess some of us are able to shake off the effects of the Kool-aid.:thumbsup:
 

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I just switched back to 26" wheel "slack" bike from a 29er full susser, and I could not be happier. It has all the benefits of the bigger wheels and then some, and none of the drawbacks. And I thought I was a total 29er convert.
The 26" wheel "slack" bikes are just too much fun.
 

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twowheelsdown2002 said:
Out of curiosity, what do you think he had set up wrong? And do you have any points or suggestions? Thanks
The two big things were the 120mm stem and the RP23 of questionable origins (comp/rebound tune). He doesn't like working on bikes unless he has to.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
morandi said:
I just switched back to 26" wheel "slack" bike from a 29er full susser, and I could not be happier. It has all the benefits of the bigger wheels and then some, and none of the drawbacks. And I thought I was a total 29er convert.
The 26" wheel "slack" bikes are just too much fun.
Maybe slack 26er's will be the new trend and pull back some 29er kool-aid drinkers!!:thumbsup:

I'm really blown away! I had always ridden 4 and 5 inch travel bikes with head angles from 71-69 degrees, and had always thought slack head angles were for downhill. I guess I always rode more XC/Trail stuff back in Oregon, and moving to Arizona got me more into the rocky chunk. I've been into mountain bikes since 1985, but being a trail rider I never tried out the slacker bikes, but now they seem to becoming the "trail bikes".

Not that I was ever a total XC weight weenie. My 1998 FSR Elite had a dual crown fork, and for a good many years it was my do it all bike that I used for all trail rides, no matter how much climbing they had. But compared to todays bikes it was not slack.

Seems that if the rest of the bike is set up right it does not hurt the climbing one bit. If anything, it makes the front wheel go over uphill obstacles better. It seems to give the benefits of a 29" wheel as far as not getting hung up on things, and float and tracking in loose stuff. Yet keeps the better cornering and flick-ability of the smaller wheels.

I really wish I had tried a slack head angle bike years ago. Now the 69 degrees of the Motolite seems silly.
 

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I love my Endorphin and ride it a bunch but if Knolly put out a FS 29er I'd jump all over it....its not a matter of need ! :D TIG.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
TIGMAN said:
I love my Endorphin and ride it a bunch but if Knolly put out a FS 29er I'd jump all over it....its not a matter of need ! :D TIG.
You may need an intervention.:eek:ut: ;)

I prescribe an IMMEDIATE ride on the Endorphin to help cure such delusions.:thumbsup:
 
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